How do you deal with losing a life partner? Why do people get stuck in grief? And why should widowhood be celebrated? Meet Grief Coach Tina Fornwald, the Creator and Host of Widowhood Real Talk with Tina, a philanthropic organization dedicated to creating a safe space for candid discussions about the grief journey. After high school, Tina enlisted in the United States Army and during that time, she met her late husband, Mark W. Fornwald. Tina and Mark were married for 32 years and had two children, Catherine and Alexander, who were the heartbeats of their family. In 2015, Tina was diagnosed with breast cancer and overcame several operations and treatments with the loving support of Mark, her children, family, friends, and her faith.
But tragically, in 2017, while Tina and Mark were enjoying a weekend in Delaware, Mark suffered a massive heart attack. This profound loss turned Tina’s life upside down. She found that connecting with other widows and widowers became instrumental in her healing journey, and over the years she became a trusted source of support and advice for others navigating grief. Tune in to hear why Tina states that widowhood should be celebrated, why people get stuck in grief, and so much more, for this inspiring, healing, and uplifting interview!
IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL HEAR ABOUT THINGS LIKE:
- How Tina found strength through operations and treatments for breast cancer.
- Tina heard God’s voice instructing her to be with Mark on the last day of his life.
- The heavenly guidance that helped Tina accept her profound loss.
- Tina’s process of connecting with other widows and widowers that became instrumental to her healing journey.
- The primary reasons a person can become stuck in grief.
- How new love in her life has influenced Tina’s perspective on love and life.
SOME QUESTIONS IRENE ASKS TINA:
- After Mark’s passing, how did you navigate your grief and begin to rebuild your life?
- Why do you say that widowhood should be celebrated?
- What is the important role of our communities in our grief journeys?
- In what ways is the most horrific experience of your life now inspiring others?
- How do you join with those on their grief journey to help them develop a fantastic life they love, not just exist?
- What is your message to the world about the importance of healing from the trauma of losing a partner?
—
✨ Irene’s new anthology book, Good to the Last Drop! Embracing Your Life’s Third Chapter, is now available on Amazon.
✨ Get the audiobook version of Irene’s book, They Serve Bagels in Heaven for FREE when you sign up for Audible’s FREE 30-day trial using her link: https://amzn.to/4dG4l4w
✨ For a curated collection of Irene’s favorite books, music, healing events, and self-care essentials, head over to kit.co/GriefandRebirth.
✨ Find your next source of healing and inspiration at the Grief and Rebirth Bookshop.
Listen to all episodes of the Grief and Rebirth Podcast HERE:
Find Irene on social media:
✨ Get your copy of Irene’s book: They Serve Bagels in Heaven: One Couple’s Story of Love, Eternity, and the Cosmic Importance of Everyday Life
Get access to The Live Your Most Evolved Life Summit Replay, where we showcase a synergy of talent that will heighten your intuition and will undoubtedly illuminate, enlighten, and spark your soul on your evolutionary journey towards ascension.
✨ Sign up for the Grief and Rebirth newsletter to stay up-to-date on forthcoming episodes, events, healing tools, and announcements.
Grief and Rebirth LLC is an affiliate, and we may earn a commission from purchases made through recommendations of products and services mentioned on the website, email, and social media channels including Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. This commission helps to support the podcast and allows us to continue providing valuable information and resources to our audience. We only recommend products and services that we have personally used or thoroughly researched and believe will be helpful to our community. It will never cost you more to use our affiliate links and sometimes it will even save you money. Thank you for your ongoing support.
—
Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
Tina Fornwald: How Do You Deal with the Permanent Separation of Losing a Life Partner?
How does a person cope with the separation of losing a life partner? Why do people get stuck in grief? Why should widowhood be celebrated? You’ll know the answers to these questions and more with the amazing, touching, and wonderful Tina Fornwald who is a grief coach and the host of a podcast called Widowhood Real Talk with Tina. During this amazing insights-filled interview, you’re going to learn how Tina heard God’s voice advising her to be with her husband Mark, the day before he transitioned. You’ll learn how connecting with widows and widowers became instrumental to Tina’s healing journey and there is so much more. Come join Tina and me.
—
I hope this finds each of you very well. I’m speaking to you from my studio in West Orange, New Jersey. I could not be more delighted to have the pleasure of interviewing Tina Fornwald, a grief coach who is the creator and host of Widowhood Real Talk with Tina, a philanthropic organization that is dedicated to creating a safe space for candid discussions about the grief journey through weekly podcasts and daily social content.
Tina was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. After high school, she enlisted in the United States Army. During her time in the Army, Tina earned a bachelor’s degree in finance with a minor in accounting, she was ordained into the ministry, she became an empowerment life coach, and she met her late husband, Mark W. Fornwald. Tina and Mark were married for 32 years and had 2 children, Catherine and Alexander, who were the heartbeats of their family.
In 2015, Tina was diagnosed with breast cancer and overcame several operations and treatments with the loving support of Mark, her children, family, friends, and her faith, but tragically, in 2017 while Tina and Mark were enjoying a weekend in Delaware, Mark suffered a massive heart attack. This profound loss turned Tina’s life upside down. She found that connecting with other widows and widowers became instrumental in her healing journey. Over the years, she became a trusted source of support and advice for others navigating grief, and I can happily report that Tina found love again and married Fred M. Jackson in February 2022.
I’m looking forward to talking with Tina who will be speaking to us from Norfolk, Virginia about her work as an empowerment life coach, how connecting with other widows and widowers became instrumental in her healing journey, why Tina states that widowhood should be celebrated, why people get stuck in grief, her candid discussions on the grief journey through her weekly podcast and daily social content, and so much more for what will surely be an insights-filled healing and uplifting interview.
Tina, a warm welcome.
Thank you so much. I feel welcome. I’m like, “Who is she? That’s me?” Day by day, you’re doing things and it’s like, “That’s where we’re at.”
Overcoming Breast Cancer: A Story of Strength and Support
You’re a major achiever. Look what you did in the Army. You became a minister. You have a degree. That’s amazing. I relate to it because of all the things that happened in my life, we look at them as separate events but they thread together to bring us to where we are. You have been through it. In 2015 you were diagnosed with breast cancer and overcame operations and treatments with the loving support of your husband, your family, your friends, and your faith. Could you tell us about that challenging period in your life and share how you found strength during that time to get through that?
It takes me back so many years. I, like other women, have been very proactive in having an annual breast exam. Cancer was not something in my family, but I felt it was important to be able to have those regular exams. I had a regular exam and they called me. I was like, “You’re never supposed to call me. You send me a little letter saying everything is fine and we go on about our business.” They called me and gave me some information.
I am 1 of 5 siblings. I reached out to my siblings. We had a conference call. I told them what was going on and they immediately started researching. My job was to relax. I woke up the next day with 50 questions to be able to ask the prospective oncologist. I emailed the doctor and he came in. He was like, “You have a lot of questions.” I was like, “I’m the only one of me.” My siblings were trying to be on the conference call to listen.
I’m sure you know this too, but the person who is not well is not the person to be their advocate. My husband is hyper-focused on his wife’s well-being, so his ability to be clear and to think of questions is thinking of my mortality. We went into that first conversation and asked the questions. He was a great doctor but was not the fit for us. We eventually went to Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, and that was about a 90-minute drive 1 way from where we lived. When my regular treatment started, people had been saying, “Can I help?” Oftentimes, people hear that but my friends and family meant it.
I have to interject. Don’t lose your thought, please. How blessed are you to have a family like that. A lot of people don’t have that. Your parents did a good job of helping you guys bond together. That’s beautiful.
I am so grateful. I was working full-time so I needed to figure out how to take off from work. We had two small children. Mark was trying to take care of the kids. I didn’t want to place the burden on him for taking me to treatment. I’m a project manager by nature. I created a schedule. Everyone that said that they wanted to help had a week there. I had friends who came from Maryland. My sister came from California. Oftentimes, people don’t know how to help us. We’re so overwhelmed by what we’re going through we may not know how to articulate our help and we get frustrated because people don’t know how to show up. When we give them what they can do, they lean in. My people leaned in.
Even after doing all that, because I’m still going through what I was, I messed up the schedule and there was a day that was missing. We had decided I would go to Memorial Sloan, stay overnight, and then come back. That night, a friend called me. Melissa said, “Tina, I wanted to help but I hadn’t been able to. Is there anything you need?” I sat on that phone and cried. I said, “Melissa, I have treatment tomorrow,” and she said, “I will be there.” She lived already a good 90 minutes away.
She was at my house the next day bright and early. She had a journal, a gift, and a pen. I fell asleep the whole way there because I was so tired and I fell asleep on the way back. My friends were not prepared to see that level of shrinkage in who I was in my capacity. I had friends from Virginia come visit me. I couldn’t walk 500 feet from my home to my mailbox and back without being in pain.
About my faith, I knew that in the beginning of this, the way I postured myself would matter how everyone else would perceive that. We used to attend the doctor’s appointments. My husband and my girlfriend Georgette would go to every appointment. The one appointment that I went to where they gave me the diagnosis, I thought they were going to remove some Band-Aids from where they took the biopsy. They sat me in that room, gave me the diagnosis, and asked me to respond.
Words are important to me. What I say, I hear those words and they have meaning to me. They asked me if I had something to say and I said, “I do not. All I want is that piece of paper with the diagnosis. I need to take that in.” They kept trying to give me things and I said, “All I want is a written copy of everything so I can go from there.”
I got in my car and spoke every word in the Bible that speaks about healing. I was looking at my phone. I was speaking of healing, strength, and peace to my life because I knew on my way home, my husband was hoping I would come back and be like, “This is a diagnosis but this is what the word of God says. This is what I perceive to be my strength in my strong place. Having that position allowed everyone else to join a side of that. The church where I was ordained was extremely supportive. I remember they gave me this gift basket with all these sports bras in it because when you are having these surgeries, you need to bind yourself up.
Can I ask? Was it chemo radiation they were going to have you go through?
It was radiation and strong radiation because I had several lymph nodes removed. In the process, it started to shift into uterine cancer and I had to have an emergency hysterectomy. This is what I thought was going to be my most difficult experience in life. I am grateful for every friend and family member, every prayer, every person that supported me, and every person that encouraged me. That’s a snippet of that journey and what that looks like.
I so relate to what you’re saying because what I went through in my life, I had people showing up for me also and I looked at them as my wagon train. They can help you in different ways with love. They surround you and they help you. You had one heck of a wagon train. You were a moving statement there. We love Tina.
I remember having the diagnosis, knowing I was going through treatment, standing in front of my church and my congregation, informing them, “This is the diagnosis, but this is what I believe God for,” and being there having to get tattoos as far as where they would do the radiation. It could have been much worse, but I thank God it was enough to change my life. I have a purpose and I am still here.
Experiencing God’s Guidance Through Loss
You’re here. Thank God, thank all your friends, and thank everyone and the medical establishment. You think you are going through the worst thing in your life but there was something else planned for you. In 2017, tragically your dear beloved Mark suffered a massive heart attack and he transitioned. The part that fascinates me is that you heard God’s voice instructing you to be with Mark on the last day of his life, which I got a voice in my head also during the accident. You received God’s guidance about coming to peace with his transition from this world. You also had heavenly guidance to help you accept your loss. Tell us everything. That’s amazing.
I traveled a lot in the job that I had when Mark and I were together. I was supposed to leave that Monday and go to Huntsville, Alabama, to meet with some people we were doing work with. I remember sitting at my desk and I could hear God saying, “You need to cancel that trip.” I was like, “Maybe we didn’t sleep well last night,” or, “Something’s going on and I’m second-guessing myself.” I then heard God again saying, “You need to cancel that trip,” and I was like, “Okay.”
This is 2017. Doing something virtual was not a thing. Either you were present or you were not. I called the people that I was trying to meet. It was about 4:00 at the end of the day and they finally said, “You never canceled a trip. We’ll allow it to be canceled.” I had to find my travel partner, an engineer I was going with, to let him know we were not going.
The next day, I was at work and I heard another voice saying, “You need to spend time with Mark.” This was in March 2017. I was like, “I’m going to see him for Easter. I don’t need to worry about that.” I heard again, clear as day, “You need to spend time with your husband.” That weekend, I had some responsibilities at church. I was supposed to teach a class, facilitate, and do a few things but I was like, “I’m going to listen to this,” and I let my pastor know that I wasn’t going to be there.
I hadn’t seen my husband in months. I asked him if he wanted to get together. Any man is going to say, “When and where? I want to see my wife.” We met in Delaware, which was exactly halfway from where we were. Anybody that’s been in any relationship, sometimes when you see each other and you haven’t been together, there’s a little nitpicking. You feel the underlying tension that you’re together but you know you’re going to be apart. There was none of that to the extent that we got lost going to a movie theater and didn’t argue. We laughed it off. I was like, “This is interesting.”
I remember we went to see the last Wolverine. We went to a Chinese restaurant. I can eat up all the Chinese food. Mark is a steak and potato man. He said, “We’ll go to this buffet.” He picked it out. We went there and went to the movies. I’m an avid walker, so after the movie, we walked around the theater because I needed to get my 10,000 steps for the day.
I remember the security guard stopping us and saying, “What are you two doing back here? Are you even married?” I was like, “Married? Do you know how long I’ve been with this guy?” My husband is about your complexion. He is European. Fornwald means forest in German. There’s a stark contraction seeing us together. We laughed it off.
The next day after breakfast, he came back to the room. He had been complaining of having gas. He had been taking some medication a doctor prescribed to him. I remember going into the bathroom. He was standing there profusely sweating. I said, “We should go to the hospital.” You know what guys say. He said, “I don’t want to go to the hospital.” That was my last time seeing him stand up. He had a heart attack in that bathroom.
We were on a Military base. I’m a retired Military officer. The people that came to assist him were MPs, so they had weapons and everything. I remember distinctively being at the end of that hallway screaming into the phone to my oldest sister and telling her, “I love him.” In my mind, I thought, “That’s not the people that die. It’s somebody else, not my husband.” We went to the hospital and it was one thing after another. I remember the doctor coming to me at several points in time and giving me all this information the first time they brought me into this room. I was like, “That’s some Grey’s Anatomy stuff. Nobody wants to go into the room and be talked to about anything.”
I had this sheet of paper and I was writing down information because I needed to ask questions. I took a picture of the information and sent it to my family and friends and it was soaked with my tears. Everybody was trying to figure out how to get to where we were in Delaware. Mark lives in Virginia and I was living in Pennsylvania. We’re in the middle. This is happening at the most inopportune time and inopportune location. People are traveling to where we’re at.
I remember the doctor coming and telling me all of this stuff and I was like, “I have a finance and accounting background. I don’t have medical. I want you to talk to me like this is your wife or your spouse. I see a wedding band on your hand. All of that stuff you’re telling me, I want you to talk to me like this is a person you have loved for decades.” It shifted his perspective of how he responded to me.
Unfortunately, that night, after hours of Mark being coded, he came to me and this doctor got on his knees. He rested his hand on my knees and said, “I know you said your husband had a DNR. He has coded a double-digit number of times and come back. What do you want to do?” I was on the phone with 1 of our children and 1 of the nurses came in and said that he was gone. I was glad I didn’t have to make that decision but I was horrified that he was no longer in this world.
I wanted to see him immediately and they were not ready. They had to take some time to get him ready. I went into that room and I lost my whole mind. I climbed on that table and was touching him and his hand was cold. To think this was the same hand that was holding me tight the night before and he had transitioned from this world.
My daughter was coming with a family friend. One of his brothers was coming to be where we were. I am so thankful that the medical staff allowed me the space to scream, pound the floor, and be devastated. They came in when my daughter entered the building and said, “Your daughter’s here. She should be here in a few minutes.” They gave me time to gather myself and gave me time to lose myself. My daughter and a family friend came in. My son was on active duty in the Navy. My middle sister was working with the Red Cross to get him released. There were people doing things, friends and family, and getting people together to support.
You have an amazing network.
People came from Virginia and Pennsylvania to be there with us where we were staying. People were driving Mark’s car back. Somebody was driving me back in my vehicle. I was trying to think, “What do we do now? Where do we go from here?” At the same time, I was also thinking, “I am so glad that I listened to God’s prompting and being with Him.”
Sometimes, we have opportunities to go back and forth with what we think we hear, and sometimes, we only get one opportunity. That was Mark’s appointed day to transition from this world. God gave Mark and me a gift to be there with him so he did not transition from this world alone. He was an amazing husband, father, son, friend, and uncle. He deserved to have his wife there with him. I am so gracious to God to give me that and tell me.
Sometimes, we have opportunities to go back and forth with what we think we hear. And sometimes, we only get one opportunity to do this. Share on X
It’s a couple of weeks later. We’ve had the service. My youngest brother came to stay with me for the first two weeks. A first cousin came to stay with me for the next two weeks. Eventually, people have to go back to their lives. The house we had in Pennsylvania was a couple of acres and had a big backyard. Mark was an avid hunter. He had a styrofoam deer back there that he would use to shoot arrows. He taught the kids how to hunt very early. I was drinking a cup of tea and looked at that deer and was like, “He is never going to shoot another arrow at that deer again.”
I am an avid encourager of journaling. I have a journal that I kept when Mark passed. I remember that day looking out of the window and saying, “This is trash. I don’t even know what we’re going to do with this.” I was looking out the window and I could hear God say, “The plans that I have for you are good.” I was like, “That’s trash. No, God. I don’t believe that. You don’t know. I had my uterus ripped out, I’ve been through breast cancer, and the man I love has died and you are talking about, “The plans I have for you are good.” I heard God say, “Tina, I knew Mark was going to die and leave you on March 11th, 2017, and because I knew these things and I love you, I have been preparing you.” My heart responded to God, “Preparing me how?”
There are twenty different things that are in this journal when I get the gumption to write that book and share these things about what God was doing and a couple of things. When Mark had taken a job in Virginia, that made me start learning how to live by myself. It made us have to transition some things. It made me start trusting God more.
One of the things that blew me away was when we told our church that we were relocating. I was trying to find a job here, and both of the children were looking to go into the Military. Our church gave us the most amazing going away party that I have ever seen in my life. The ministers of the church got together and sang a song. They talked about how much they loved us.
What God showed me was that it was my husband’s living funeral. He got to receive his roses and his flowers while he was alive. There are so many other different things in here, but rest assured, this is not something I was making up in my mind. The Creator and the universe were telling me, “I have you, daughter. Even though this is difficult, it will be okay.”
When you come out with that new book, come back on. I would love for you to come back on and share that. As you refer to God, other people call Source or whatever that source of information. We have so much in common because I got messages when my husband died next to me. It’s amazing. I resonate with everything you’re saying. What a beautiful thing, how surrounded in love you were. In the most tragic moment, you went towards love and faith.
What else would I have? Let me be clear. It was hard going into our home church. I had to go to other places because I needed a place to lament. I needed a place to be mad without someone trying to bring it back in. At this point, it seemed to me, and I had been through breast cancer, either I believed what I’d been saying the whole time in life or I’d been a fraud. It was hard but it was all that I knew and what I had. There was nothing else that was going to hold me up at this point if I did not lean into that.
How to Navigate Life After Loss
That’s beautiful. What did you do? You’re devastated. You’re in the real world. You’re living with all the acute firsts and all the stuff that’s going on. How’d you begin to navigate your grief? When the people leave and it’s Tina with Tina and her ways of grief and her feelings, what’d you do with that?
Several different things. One, a couple of days before Mark’s service, a friend that I had was a widow and she said, “I’m not ready to come to this service,” because her husband had not passed that long. She said, “What I can offer you is I’ve already talked to my therapist and she will meet with you.” For the first time in my life, I saw a therapist the day before I viewed Mark’s body, and that was a solid decision.
When we were having children we read books like What to Expect When You’re Expecting. You talk to other people or parents. I was like, “This is uncharted territory. I have no idea what it’s like to be a widow.” I didn’t know what grief fog or grief brain was or understand the impact on my prefrontal cortex and my amygdala. I didn’t understand all those things yet but I was feeling them and I needed someone to help navigate me.
I also opened up my phone book and started calling every widow that I knew. They had already known Mark had passed. I wanted to say, “How are you doing this? How is this working?” I wanted to be on that front line of speaking to people that I’ve already known and loved that would give me that candid information of how they’re navigating that. I flew out to California from Pennsylvania to meet somebody and attend a widow support conference because I needed to know how not to stay in misery. If I’m still alive and I have a purpose, then I felt like even though I was falling through hot lava, I needed to figure out how I could live.
Why Widowhood Should Be Celebrated and Embraced
That’s fabulous. I so relate to every single word you were saying because when it happened for me, I went to a life transition coach and I started opening up to other modalities. You keep creating a tribe around you. You keep creating a community around you, which is so beautiful. That is part of what you’re doing. We’re going to talk about your philanthropy and all. Why do you say that widowhood should be celebrated? How do you suggest that? That is one loaded statement.
Thank you for that. We take these vows to make a covenant relationship. We did it until death do you part. I’m sorry for our listeners who ended in divorce or didn’t work out. I’m not saying every marriage is perfect. If you are being hurt, you should leave. You should seek safety. I am saying for those relationships that were encouraging and fulfilling. There were financial struggles and sometimes not understanding. Everybody’s going to have their argument within reason.
My husband and I were together for 32 years. How dare you think I don’t need to be celebrated? How dare you tell a sister or brother or widow or widower who fulfilled their marriage vows that they should not be celebrated? As loud as you love, you should be able to grieve that loud without someone taking it from you.
Young women and men need to usher up next to you and go, “Can you tell me how you did that? Can you give me what you did when things got hard? Can you give me those golden nuggets that you learned in that relationship so that I can stand on that same foundation that when I’m in a relationship, I know other people did it before me and we can get through the hard times and our love grows closer?”
I did that for 32 years and you think I need to be quiet and put it aside, or somebody else? Whether it was 1 year, 1 day, or 65 years you were together, you fulfilled your covenant vow and we should celebrate that. That would normalize grief and let people know you get to honor and say your loved one’s name forever. I don’t have to hush into a corner and say Mark’s name and whisper it. I can say it out loud and be proud of the love and what we have done over 32 years. I feel as if widowers should be celebrated. We did a dang-on thing.
I agree with you. I don’t know if you did, but in my world, I experienced people shunning me because they were afraid that I was going to steal their husbands or I don’t count that much since I’m widowed. I don’t have a man in my life anymore. What that did for me, and it sounds like you were already there, I had to learn how to become my own separate person and discover myself, which is what counseling helped me to do.
New widows must allow themselves to fall apart. You do not have to worry about what's next just day by day. Share on X
How the Newly Widowed Can Find Healing
She said, “You got to discover who you are without salt.” You were there but you hadn’t come fully into it yet. I could not agree with you more. There’s an attitude about when you’re widowed or this happens to you, people are like, “That’s so sad,” and then you don’t count as much anymore. We come into our power. That’s so true. If someone has newly been separated from a partner, do you advise them to go right into therapy or to do any spiritual counseling or something? If a person is newly widowed, what is the advice you give them to start to deal with that?
Allow yourself to fall apart. Allow yourself to not have to worry about what’s next day by day. I remember sitting down and writing out 32 years times 12, which gave me the number of months that I had spent with Mark, and then by those months, the number of days. Looking at those days compared to the day I was in made no sense that I would not be complicated. I had that conversation with a widow. She and her husband were together for 37,440 days. He had only transitioned for 1 year or 365 days.
When you compare 365 days to 37,440, what are you expecting? I am trying to untether myself from this person I have been with to realize it takes time. You realize you’re going to have to throw away their toothbrush, remove their socks, or make phone calls to their employers’ credit cards. You have so much to do. Get yourself a little notepad and write down what you need to do every day because it’s going to feel like a dog day afternoon. You get up every day. Whatever you measure success by before is the baseline. You’re going to measure success if you take a bath every day for a week and let yourself be. That is what I would recommend.
Later when you feel like you’re in a space where you want to consider something different, watch Irene’s show. Go think about how to get unstuck. Reach out to other people in your community. Reach out to other widows and widowers that you’ve known already and sit at their feet and listen. Until then, let the waves of love be painful or good. Embrace them. Celebrate the person you have loved and be gentle.
Breaking Free from Stagnant Grief
That’s beautiful. We’re so on the same page. I tell people, “You lost the love of your life. He’s transitioned,” or, “She’s transitioned but don’t forget to love yourself. They would want nothing more for you also to take good care of yourself in any way you can.” What are the primary reasons that you talk about that people become stuck in grief? Unlike you and me, we went for counseling, therapy, or whatever we needed to do and created a community. There are people where that seems to be their story and they’re sticking to it. They don’t think they are entitled to have joy again or move forward in their lives. Why does that happen to people?
I will share with you what I have found to be the reasons people are stuck. I welcome you to give me what you’ve learned and I welcome anybody as they read this conversation to say, “That’s wrong,” and tell me what you think. This is what I have learned from working with and supporting hundreds of different widows and widowers.
One of the primary reasons is they feel as if their loved one’s passing was an attack on them from the universe or God. They feel like that was done to them. Somebody deliberately searched the universe and took their loved ones to punish them or do something. They feel like it’s an attack from a higher being they can’t compete with and they have been doomed.
Number two, people who isolate and people who remove themselves from society. I’m not talking about the occasion, “I need to get myself together,” but you go to work, put on that fake smile, and then go home and stare at the wall. You’re devastated. You’re not being honest with your grief. You’ve disassociated because no one understands how you feel, and yet you haven’t conveyed to them how you feel. You’re not seeking outside help.
You go to work and come home. You don’t go to the grocery store because everything you do is a memory of your loved one. If you cut off everything that you did with them, you have nothing left. Mark loved Oreo cookies. I remember avoiding the Oreo cookie aisle and I finally went through that. I stood there and cried with the shopping cart, and then I was okay. When we try to avoid everything that we did with our loved ones and isolate ourselves, that is number two.
Number three is unhealthy coping skills when we start trying to numb the pain of our grief. People drink too much alcohol. People are eliciting drugs. People do all sorts of things to try to get that endorphin and that feeling going versus dealing with the pain of losing our loved one and working through that. Those are the three things that I have found. A person is generally either going through 1 or all 3 of those that cause them to be stuck. What would you say to those three?
I would agree with you. I know that you speak about that to our communities. Our grief journeys are so important. I’m also going to add to that. The community and the people you bring around you are important, but some people are very toxic. They can prey upon a person who’s newly alone. When you’re seeking out community, you have to seek out positive people.
That would make you successful and get you unstuck right there.
You have to be discerning. That’s my word. If you’re going for that counselor and it doesn’t feel right, go interview another one until you find the right person. Find that community. Find that tribe. I found that there were people who weren’t giving me good advice or they were there for the moment and then were gone to make their statement that they were there or whatever. Don’t stick with those kinds of people.
You need to seek out people you perceive are caring, care about you, and have positive things. It could be like going to you with your Widowhood Real Talk with Tina. They’re talking to somebody who’s been through it, is positive, and is giving them positive advice as opposed to, “I’m sorry to tell you. It’s all over for you. I know it’s hard.” You don’t want to go there with those kinds of people.
Agree.
Inspiring Others Through Widowhood Real Talk with Tina
Let’s talk about Widowhood Real Talk with Tina. We have so many commonalities. My most horrific thing is feeding this show and your most horrific thing is feeding Widowhood Real Talk with Tina. Let’s talk about how you’re inspiring people through Widowhood Real Talk with Tina. I know it’s a philanthropy, so tell us all about that. It’s another way that you’re forming another positive community so people know they’re not alone, right?
Yes. That is it. This organization was born from the passing of my husband. That voice from God directed me. I had a conversation with a family member who had lost their spouse. We were up way past my bedtime. Let’s be clear. By 8:00, I’m usually tanking out, but I’ve been up since 4:00. I was on the phone with them late into the hour. When I got off the phone with them, I could hear God saying, “What are you going to do with the next person that will call?” I said, “Nobody’s calling this phone this time of night.” God was like, “No, the next person.” I was like, “I don’t know how I’m going to do that.”
At the time, my mom who was 79 or 80 was doing a podcast and I was like, “I could talk. I could do a show. I could share. I could get other people to come and share.” God gave me this vision of three tiers that we support people. There are so many people that have lost a loved one that have relocated after this pandemic and different things and people have no idea of their backstory. You and I know that when people are looking for information, they gravitate toward the internet. Some platforms, something.
Of the 3 ways in which we support people, 1 is through social media. It is social media content that we put on six different platforms. It is our weekly show. In all of our content and =episodes, we have over 4 million views across 106 countries. That tells me we have a hurting world desiring to know how to navigate these troubled waters. Shows like yours, mine, and other people, they are needing to devour that to understand, “There is hope. I still have life and I have a purpose.”
The second way in which we support people is through resources, whether it is recommending a good grief coach or a mental health professional. If you go to our website, there’s a slew of different books for adults dating and how to manage grief with children and journals. The third way in which we support people is through mental health events. One of our most popular events is called Walk for Love. In the first full week of August, we ask people to walk one mile a day, so it’s seven days. It is #WalkForLove and hashtag your loved one’s name. That’s it.
What that does is it allows us to evoke our loved one’s name. It allows people who have been grieving to get out of the house. One mile is usually enough to be like, “I did something.” When we’re grieving, we don’t exercise. We don’t take care of ourselves. Some people may need to use a mobile device and some people may walk in place at home, but they know the whole world for that week is celebrating their ancestors and their loved ones. It allows them a space to know they’re not alone.
We have an in-person event called Survivor in the winter holidays here in Norfolk, Virginia. We had people here from New Jersey, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Maryland. They have been watching the content and want to be in person. We have a local church that has donated land to us and we’re going to have a butterfly release ceremony in developing a memorial garden. We need to be able to celebrate. Some people lost their loved ones during COVID and didn’t have an opportunity to honor them. We are creating that space. We have a private Facebook group. We have a confidential Discord that we maintain.
Wherever you’re at, if you look up Widowhood Real Talk with Tina, you should be able to find us there. We have those opportunities. We rolled out our 2025 sponsorship program for businesses that may want to leverage the content in our reach and be able to advertise and do that. Everybody has someone they love that is no longer here and we’re looking for a way to express it.
Widowhood, that name, I am a widow and I’m from Chicago, so hood means family to me. When my husband Mark passed, he was my husband, my children’s father, his brother’s brother, uncle, friend, and family. That same hood, that family that surrounds me, I am supporting them also in this effort as I honor my husband’s memory.
That’s beautiful. I have a very strong suspicion that with your new husband, you also honor your husband. A lot of people, when they’re in new relationships, think they’re supposed to forget about this other person, they can’t have their picture there, or they can’t mention them. It’s exactly the opposite. This person contributed to who you are and all that you’ve done. Why not honor that person? It doesn’t negate what you may be developing with this new person, would you say?
1000%.
Helping Others Through Their Grief Journey
You don’t have to put this person that you love who transitioned under the rug because you’d like to go on with your life and perhaps meet someone else. I want to ask you. You help those on their grief journeys to develop what you call a fantastic life they love and not just exist. Is that through all of your events that you do that?
That is an underlying premise that we should have a life where we still thrive. You are still here. The duality of missing Mark always exists. I had a board meeting and we laid out our 5-year plan from 2025 to 2030. We were talking about different things. We had lunch and then the meeting. I was talking to them about the five-year plan and presented it to them for the meeting. After lunch, I went into the bathroom, looked at myself, and was like, “We are still living. We are still doing this but I miss you.” I wept in that bathroom because I did miss him. At the same time, his journey in this world was over and mine is still going. I get to celebrate and I get to remember him and honor him.
To your question, that is a very important thing. If you’re a widow dating, you have a lot of questions to ask. You should know this person. I had so many questions before I kissed this man for the first time. One of the things that he did was when he was at my home and I was getting water. I was walking toward him and I started crying because I realized that was the one-year anniversary of my living in Virginia. I’m looking at this man. I’ve known him for a few months. I was like, “This is not how I thought my life was going to be when I thought of moving to Virginia.”
He came, took the glasses out of my hand, and said, “What’s wrong?” I explained it to him and he said, “One thing you never have to worry about is being ashamed of how you feel about your late husband. You have something I wish I could have ever had. The love you had was amazing. Do you want me to leave? Do you want me to stay? Do you want me to hug you? What do you want me to do? I will support you anyway.” I was thinking, “This is what right should look like.”
If I’m collecting data, I’m saying that’s pretty good data that I’m collecting about this guy.
He showed up that way for the three years we dated. It was a few weeks before we were about to get married when one of my coworkers said, “When are you changing your name?” I was like, “Changing my name? I’m a big old 51. What are you talking about changing the name? Who is doing that?” They were like, “You are going to get married.” I was like, “In my head, I’m not doing that. This could be the game-changer.” I was 51 when Mark passed.
Love yourself. Dating and getting married is not a solution to grief. Share on X
We’re out to eat and I say, “What do you think about names?” He looked at me and was like, “You changed your name?” I was like, “Yeah, my last name.” He said, “Your children would not have a parent in this world with the same last name.” I could have run around that restaurant. I was like, “That’s what you know I needed to hear. You get me.” This man I married said, “You love me. You’re committed to me. I’m not worried about that. I want you to honor your husband and your children.”
What a special man. You would think that Mark specially sent him to you.
What is Fred’s middle name?
It’s gotta be Mark. How did you meet him?
Online. I ordered him on Zoosk, the dating app.
How to Change Your Perspective After Loss
What would you tell people with this new chapter in your life, with love, and all of that? Do you have a word of wisdom for people? Has it changed your perspective about certain things?
This is a shameless plug. Every Friday on my YouTube channel, I put out the best dating tips in 2025. There’s a playlist. You can find them all. The first thing I would say is to love yourself. Dating and getting married is not a solution to grief.
That’s true.
Love yourself. Work on yourself. If you feel that you have gotten to a place where you are the type of person you would want someone else to present to them in a relationship, see it about dating, but first do the work for yourself. First, love yourself. First, work on romancing yourself to the dang old movie. Take yourself out to the theater. Take yourself to places you want to go. Don’t wait.
Use the good China. Wear the dress that you like all day. Drink a glass of wine. Go for a walk. Take yourself on the trip. Live your life. If you decide you want someone to accompany you in this life that you have, then invite them in, but don’t put it on hold. Love yourself. After you have done that, then see if you feel welcome to somebody else.
For the other stuff, get your legal stuff in line. Make sure you have a lawyer. Get a prenup. Do all those things. We’re in this situation because people pass. You don’t want to have the messy mixed family drama to identify what’s his and what’s yours. Lay that out. Have life insurance. Do all the things. Talk to the kids. Bring them in and do you.
That’s beautiful. I am so resonating with every word you are saying. When I was in life transition coaching, I’d be crying, “Who am I without Saul? I can’t do this.” She’d say, “I’m giving you an assignment. I want you to start going to restaurants by yourself. I don’t care if you have to bring a book. I don’t care. You start going places by yourself. If you don’t like where you’ve taken yourself, I give you permission to walk back out the door. You have to learn to be able to go places by yourself, be by yourself, and enjoy who you are, and then we start to explore. We’ll take it from there.” I was crying. I was like, “I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to go.”
I have a lot of friends. They cannot go to a place unless they have someone with them. I can go anywhere I need to go. I’m not saying it to brag because she did this with me. I can go places and I can sit by myself and be fine as Irene. I don’t need to have a girlfriend hold my hand and go with me. It was a great favor that she did for me. I feel fuller into who I am from having done that.
Importance of Self-Love and Moving Forward From Trauma
It sounds like you’re helping people to have the same kind of experience. We’re so on the same page. What is your message to all people in the world? What is the Tina message about the importance of healing from the trauma of losing a partner? Why is it important to heal and help yourself to love yourself and move forward as opposed to being stuck? Maybe that’s your story for the rest of your life.
For me, you’re still here. You still have a purpose. You have a life that has meaning. We all have a Diana moment that we will no longer walk this earth, but while we’re here, embrace it. It’s okay to cry while you are embracing it. The duality can exist. No one’s saying, “Forget that person.” No one’s saying, “Stop remembering them.” Bring those memories into where you are. There may be a part of them that resonates in you that you show up in life where you celebrate their existence in a way that other people are encouraged.
No one can tell you to forget a person who passed, but bring their memories into where you are now. Share on X
It can be hard. Get some other people to maybe join you. Share the vision. Allow someone else to do that. That could be you smiling at people because your spouse was a big smiler. It could be giving people a hug. It could be listening. One thing Mark’s passing has done is it has given me the ability to sit with people in their pain in a way I never knew possible. Whatever it is that you are hardwired to do, do it to the fullest. You don’t know if this is the last moment you have it because we don’t know.
You’re leaving a legacy to the other people in your life that you can become a role model for moving on and healing. They need to see you be able to do that. I shared this with you before but I’m going to say it again. My son said to me after my husband had passed, “Mom, there’s been nothing worse than seeing you in despair, and nothing better than seeing you be able to have joy again.” I am going to a basketball game with my grandchildren. I’m able to enjoy all of that. It is very important to them that I’m still here and I’m not suffering and lamenting. I’ve moved through all of that and healed it. It’s so important for the people around us.
I’m looking forward to having you on my show sharing your journey and what you’ve done and inspiring my community soon.
Tina Fornwald’s Tip for Finding Joy in Life After Loss
We’ll have such a good time. What is the Tina tip for finding joy in life?
The night my husband passed, my daughter came to me. I was in the shower and she said, “Mom, was Dad the love of your life?” I looked at her and I knew she wanted this Disney moment, but words are important to me. I said, “I love your dad dearly, but if he is the love of my life, what is there left for me to live off of?” I have to be the love of my own life.” In that, I still have something to love and resonate in me because I came into this world with me and I’m going to leave this world with me.
Don’t think you have given all of yourself to someone else because that leaves you nothing to love yourself. Realize you chose to share your life with that person and embrace them but you are the most important love of your own life. In that, find your joy and your peace and know you are enough. You may have to wrestle with not being able to say Mark and Tina. I had to practice for a whole year saying Tina because Mark and Tina came out of my mouth like butter. I had to realize that saying Tina is enough. It’s not less than. This is who I was created to be and I am walking in who I am. I would encourage you to know you are enough and to love yourself.
That is beautiful and wonderful. I resonate with every wise word. Thank you so much. I want to thank you for the remarkable ways that you continue to connect with the Widowhood community with such an extensive range of professionals, materials, and support groups that foster encouragement, healing, and hope through your grief coaching and Widowhood Real Talk with Tina show and philanthropy. From my heart, I want to thank you also for this healing and uplifting interview on the show. As I like to say, to be continued. Thank you so much again and many blessings. You are a blessing. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me.
It is my pleasure.
Guest’s Links:
- Tina Fornwald’s Website
- Tina Fornwald’s podcast Widowhood Real Talk with Tina
- Connect with Tina Fornwald on YouTube
- Book mentioned in this episode: What to Expect When You’re Expecting
About Tina Fornwald
Tina, was born and raised in Chicago, Illinois. After graduating high school, she enlisted in the United States Army and Retired in 2020 as Chief Warrant Officer Two. While in the army, she pursued higher education, earning a bachelor’s degree in Finance with a minor in Accounting. Tina was ordained into the ministry in August 2010 and provides Empowerment Life Coaching. While in the army, she met her late husband, Mark W. Fornwald. Tina and Mark married and had two adult children, Catherine and Alexander. Their children were and are the heartbeats of their cherished 32 years together.
In 2015, Tina was diagnosed with breast cancer. With the love of Mark, her children, family, friends, and faith, Tina survived several operations and cancer treatments. Then, in 2017, Mark and Tina were enjoying a weekend in Delaware when Mark had a massive heart attack, and the man she loved for 32 years died. The life Tina had come to love was suddenly turned upside down. She sought solace in God, family, friends, and therapy to figure out life without Mark in the following days, months, and years. Tina has learned to live again through healthy coping skills, the love and support of family, friends, and other widows/widowers, therapy, and her faith.
