Grief and Rebirth: Finding the Joy in Life | Janine Sarna-Jones | Stress In Transitions


Are you aware that there is a connection between grief and clutter? Janine Sarna-Jones is a Certified Professional Organizer and Certified Senior Move Manager who is passionate about helping clients reduce stress during life transitions, creating customized solutions, and managing complex projects to completion. Through her concierge-style team approach, Janine’s company Organize Me provides outstanding move management and unpacking services, estate clearance, project management, and organizing for both homes and offices. Be sure to tune in to hear Irene and Janine discuss the connection between grief and clutter, the challenge dealing with the possessions of a loved one while mourning the loss, Janine’s mission to mitigate the stress inherent in the transitions we all face, how she helps both seniors and growing families to get organized, and more. This interview is filled with information and insights we can all use!  



  • How the loss of Janine’s Aunt Sue taught her about grief and the process of sorting the possessions of a loved one.
  • What inspired Janine’s mission to mitigate the stress inherent in the transitions we all face.


  • What are the challenges involved with dealing with the possessions of a loved one while mourning a loss?
  • What is the connection between grief and clutter?
  • What is your process for helping seniors rightsize, and helping growing families get organized?
  • Why do you believe that offering to help others is a key to healing oneself?

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Janine Sarna-Jones: Is It Possible To Mitigate The Stress Inherent In The Transitions We All Face?





I hope this finds each of you so very well. I’m speaking to you from my studio in West Orange, New Jersey. I could not be more delighted to have the pleasure of interviewing Janine Sarna-Jones, a Certified Professional Organizer and Certified Senior Move Manager whose passion lies in helping clients reduce stress during life transitions, creating customized solutions, and managing complex projects to completion through her company Organize me Inc.

After Janine graduated from Stanford University, she worked as a photographer and photo archivist at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian. When she originally founded Organized Me, she primarily offered residential hands-on organizing as a solo organizer. Janine’s company has a concierge-style team approach providing services including move management and unpacking services, stay clearance, project management, and organizing for both homes and offices.

Janine’s dedication to her work has been recognized through features in print, radio, and podcasts, as well as her role as a member of the Parenting Magazine’s Mom Squad and she has served in leadership roles within the National Association of Productivity & Organizing Professionals and the National Association of Senior and Specialty Move Managers.

I’m looking forward to talking with Janine who will be speaking to us from New York City about the connection between grief and clutter and the challenge of dealing with the possessions of a loved one while mourning the loss. Her mission is to mitigate the stress inherent and the transitions we all face, and how she helps both seniors and growing families to get organized and more for what is surely going to be an enlightening interview filled with information and insights we can all use.


Grief and Rebirth: Finding the Joy in Life | Janine Sarna-Jones | Stress In Transitions


Janine, a warm welcome to the show.

Thank you so much, Irene. I’m happy to be here.

Getting To Know Jaime

I’m happy to have you here. We’re going to help a lot of people with this because as a person who’s moved a lot in her life, it can be one of the most upsetting, devastating, confusing, you name it. Whatever can trigger, it triggers. Especially if you’re grieving and dealing with your loved one, their possessions, and all the things, it can be very hard. Someone like you has got to be a wonderful blessing and an asset to have when you’re overwhelmed with everything going on. Let’s start by getting everyone to know who you were from the beginning. Could you tell us about your childhood and where you were known to have a gift for organizing things at that time?

Offering to help others is a key to healing oneself. Share on X

I grew up in California until I had to move to New York with my family. As a child, for me, it was all about the process of things. I enjoyed playing library. All of my books had stamps and I was an avid reader. At the age of five, I would go to the library on my own, walk there, and walk back with my arm full of books.

Your parents loved you. You kept busy.

My mother said, “I know how independent you are.” I’ve been that way my entire life. I loved finding a way to escape the world. You can go into a book and it’s an amazing experience to experience another world. I also loved the library because you would bring your books and there was this whole process and then books would go on the shelf after you return them.

It seems like the library is the epitome of organizing.

On some level, yes, but it was later when I was a teenager, I was interested in theater. I wanted to understand what went on behind the scenes. My first volunteer project was as an assistant stage manager. That is where I discovered the process. The theater is all about the process. There might be spit and glued to hang something up, fix the costume, or something like that but it brings people out of themselves and into this other world with the characters, set, and everything. It’s like a whole other world but I loved being a stage manager up until I met my husband. That’s how I met him. I was stage managing a show at Lower East Side Theater.

Was he in the audience or the crew?

We’re having a gala performance and he was helping. He was going to play drums. We had the director and a couple of guys in the show who were going to have a little band so he joined them. That’s how I met him.

That was the beginning of the story. A lot of what you do was inspired by the loss of your Aunt Sue. Not only was it inspired by her but she also taught you about grief and the process of sorting the possessions of a loved one. Did this happen while you were still doing the stage work or after?

I did stage management on the side while working at the museum. I stopped doing it because once you have a love in your life, it’s hard to find time for all the extracurriculars that I am known to involve myself with. My Aunt Sue was a big part of my life, I’ll tell you that. As a child when I moved to New York, she would take me to Broadway shows. I would spend weekends with her.

She tried to show me the great aspects of New York City and all the things that we have available here to us. I loved her deeply. Later on, when I had my daughter and left the museum soon after she was about 5 or 6 months old, I was grateful to have Aunt Sue in my life because she immediately loved my daughter so much. It was such a loving and amazing experience to have somebody who would say, “You need to go out. I want to take care of her.”

How wonderful. What a blessing.

My daughter got this great opportunity to do a lot of the things that Sue would take me to do when I was a child. They had a special relationship.

How old was your daughter when your Aunt Sue died?

Unfortunately, it was when she was eight. She didn’t have her long enough. When she died, she was getting ready to move out of the apartment that she was living in. She’s going to put things in storage and go live with a friend in Vermont. When she died, it was such a shock. It was unbelievable. My uncle, my parents, myself, my husband, and my daughter were all in California celebrating my mother-in-law’s birthday. I got a phone call. To make a long story short, my uncle decided to go ahead because she had already scheduled a move. He had said, “The mover should come. They should pack up and put everything in storage.”

Coincidentally, my Aunt Sue had scheduled the mover that I worked with a lot. I knew that we were going to have to go through all of her possessions and all of these boxes. I asked the mover, “Please tell the guys that this is my aunt and ask them to do the best that they can to label the boxes with the contents.” My mother said to me, “Can we look at the labels on the boxes and then decide which boxes we are going to get rid of?” I said, “No. We have to go through every single box and look at every single item. We have to make decisions about every single thing that is in storage.”

You must have cried while you were unearthing certain things.

By the time we started doing it, the mover that I worked with was upstairs and downstairs moving here based in New York, and I have a very close relationship with the owner, I’m not very emotive when it comes to going through the stuff of somebody that’s passed away. It’s hard. I’d already cried a river of tears. Do you know that feeling when you’ve cried and cried that you almost feel like you have nothing left? It’s like you’re empty, even if you want to cry.

There’s nothing in there anymore.

There’s no way to replenish. It’s almost like you cried an aquifer and there’s nothing left. I had done a lot of crying. By the point of going through my aunts’ things with my mother, we went every week together. The mover sent one of his guys to help us get the boxes. We ended up taking pictures for the family. If there were things that they wanted, they could pick them up. We could have them delivered at the end. It was all these things like her life was in these boxes.

My mom found things from her childhood that my aunt had that she didn’t even realize still existed. What I learned is that we imbue the things in our life with our spirit. The things that we hold on to say a lot about who we are as people but it was also the process of going through, making choices, and trying to find a way to share with the family, things that would help them remember her. It was a deep process. I had done a few of these projects with clients but I never understood how hard it was. Intellectually, I knew but when I had to face it myself, it was different.

We imbue the things in our life with our own spirit, and the things that we hold on to say a lot about who we are as people. Share on X

Mitigating Stress In Life Transitions

It is hard. It gives you a lot of dollops of compassion when you’re working with people like this because you understand what they’re going through. What inspires your mission to mitigate the stress inherent in the transitions we face? What was your inspiration for the name of your company, Organize Me?

First, I don’t like to be stressed.

I could lift a glass of wine to that.

I’m a very even-keeled person. My superpower is to be able to cross over your threshold and calm you down. I understand what you’re trying to achieve. I often will come to somebody and they’re like, “Should I show you around? Should I do this or that?” I say, “Wait. Let’s sit down for a minute.” Sometimes I hold their hands and say, “Why don’t we take a few deep breaths together, and then we can begin?” A physical touch from another person who sees you is the gift that I’m giving. Somebody who’s stressed out is to be seen, heard, and understood. Those are very important qualities that we can, as individuals, share with another person.

In this world, it’s in short supply, which makes someone like you even more precious. With so many people, it’s like they see each other as just a transaction. They don’t see the person behind what’s going on. You see it all the time. You call customer service and they’ve got a script. You’re going through something and they don’t care. It’s just that they want you to tell the company that they did a good job but they didn’t relate to what you were trying to say to them. It was a checklist. Why did you decide to transition your business from a solo operation? Are you growing?

I have to explain. The reason why the company is called Organized Me is that when people found out that I was helping people and organizing them, they would say, “I wish I had somebody who could organize me.” I heard it over and over again and I thought, “That’s the right name for this company.” In the beginning, I was just an organizer. People would tell me sometimes, “You’re more than just an organizer. It’s beyond that.” I couldn’t quite connect that to my personal view of what I was doing.

I transitioned. After ten years, I hit a ceiling of how much money I could make. It was the right thing to do at the time. My daughter was young. I wanted to be a class mom and go on all the school trips. I had a very limited schedule based on my child. I ended up realizing that I had hit a level of revenue that was not sustainable in New York City. This big revelation came with a need to realize that I needed to do something different, and this is true.

I am unemployable. I could never go and get a job and work for somebody else because I’m always telling the person that I work with what’s wrong and how we can improve it. I’m all about, “Let’s improve it, make it better, make it more efficient, and all of that.” That’s not something that a boss would want to hear. I am a natural leader. I had to go back to the drawing board to figure out what Organized Me was going to be.

I realized the projects that I loved, the ones that had a beginning, a middle, and an end, and the projects where I had to pull in colleagues to help me complete something because it was too complicated or big for me to do by myself. That’s how I transitioned. In that first couple of years transitioning to a team-based business, the revenue blew up and I became a six-figure business. I was so proud of myself. I love my team and I appreciate them so much because I want to share the wealth with everyone.

They appreciate you, I’m sure. Would you say that the biggest challenge involved with dealing with the possessions of a loved one while mourning a loss is the emotional component or is there more?

There are a couple of things. In some cases, there is an emotional component whether it’s the loss of that person and feeling that loss or anger. There’s a process to it and a lot of people don’t understand how they can make it easier for themselves. When somebody passes away, the family goes in and they start sorting things and taking things out of closets but they don’t do it in a way that’s methodical because they’re consumed emotionally.

“I want that pin.” “No, you’re not getting that pin.”

I’ve had the opposite experience where people are like, “Do you want that,” or they’ll put notes on things and then say, “If you want it, you can have it.” Maybe it’s the kind of client that I attract, I’m not sure. Honestly, the vast majority don’t want anything. They may want a few little things, maybe some photos, but they don’t want anything. They don’t want furniture.

You know how to dispose of these things or what to do but it must be hard when you see someone’s life and it’s getting thrown in the trash.

It’s very hard. We try to be sustainable. We care about the environment. We work and partner with companies that are buyers. Sometimes when you have some nice things, it can either go to auction or buyers can come in and take it and then you don’t have to pay for them to move it out. We’ve also partnered a lot with Junkluggers in New York, which has a resale shop in Long Island City. They try to sell things in the proceeds. The percentage of the profits goes to Habitat for Humanity.

They do try not to put things into a landfill. We like opportunities to donate as much as possible. Even linens, towels, and things like that, we take them to the ASPCA so they can be used for the animals. It’s not what you would think. I don’t see people necessarily fighting over things. When they don’t want things, we try our best to find a place for those things.

Grief And Clutter

Is there a connection between grief and clutter?


Grief and Rebirth: Finding the Joy in Life | Janine Sarna-Jones | Stress In Transitions


One hundred percent. Over the years, I’ve met so many people that when a loved one passed away, they would take all of their furniture and put it into their home that already had all the furniture that they needed or they would have things that they couldn’t let go of. I would have to counsel them through the process of understanding that their loved one was not in the object. Their soul was not inside of it and all of that stuff didn’t represent them as well as it did their relationship with that person.

How they touch them and what effect they have on them was the thing that was important. It’s not the stuff. There were many times when people needed time to process the fact that the furniture that they had collected didn’t have room for it. They were living in clutter or overwhelmed by the volume of what they had only because they felt like they were throwing away the person. I would say things like, “Take a picture and have an album. You can flip through and look at the things that this person owned. You don’t have to have an object itself.”

You’re also a counselor in a way. With your services, you help people to get clear on what’s important in their grief and take away props the guilt of, “I got rid of this piece of furniture. Does that mean I’m a bad person,” which is great. This is connected to my next question. You have a very uplifting story about helping a woman who needed help finding a will in her cousin’s apartment. Do you want to share that with our audience?

It’s the parent’s sisters. Their cousin had died in her apartment and this is in Queens. There’s the Queen’s Public Authority. When somebody dies and they don’t have a loved one that steps forward, they take over ownership of the process and search for a will. There was the New York Times article about an example of this and it was so exactly like what we experienced.

They have investigators who go and look through the apartment. I was told several times, “There’s no will here.” The sisters said, “We know that there’s a will. Our father talked about it. We never saw it ourselves but we knew that she 100% had a will because our father had helped her get it together. If you can help us find this will, we will be so grateful. We know it’s somewhere in the apartment.” Unfortunately, the apartment was pretty rough, let me put it that way.

If they didn’t find the will, then agencies would have their way with her things as opposed to what she wanted.

Authority would take a big chunk of her estate. After being told several times that there was no will, I took four people from my team to go through and search the apartment. I gave them very clear instructions. The sisters came too because they wanted to help. I said, “Start in one corner and methodically go through every single thing. Look for something that looks like a will.” I had a meeting with another client so I left.

During that meeting, my phone was blowing up. It was probably 1 hour or 1 hour and 30 minutes after they had started. I got a text that said, “We found the will.” It was not a necessarily logical place but we found it. It was in a Ziploc baggie behind a cushion in her favorite chair. It was so amazing. Meanwhile, the investigator who had to be there while we were in the apartment was furious. He was professional about it but he was upset because he had said so many times that there was no will.

They asked us to go back and find some specific financial papers. I sent a couple of people to do some searching. They found another copy of the will. That’s why I call this, “Where there’s a will, there’s a way.” Maybe you’re not looking at the places where people care about something and where they would put it. It doesn’t make any logical sense to you but it made sense to her. There’s been so many times we found stacks of cash because somebody put it in an odd place.

They didn’t want anyone to find it but they didn’t realize that one day, people would be able to find it.

There are things like that. When you’re clearing it in a state, it’s so interesting. I love the fact that my team found that will in less than two hours. It took no time at all.

I’m getting that your particular temperament is so suited for what you do because you’ve got people with emotions around you and the fact that you are so even with your clients and an administrator whose ego is bruised. He wasn’t proved right or whatever is going on. You sound like a no-drama mama, which is probably a very good thing.

I love theater but I don’t like drama.

Organization Tips For Growing Families

I know you have a process for helping seniors the right size, and I’m sure there are a lot of people reading this who have seniors in their lives who may want to move or transition. You also have a process for helping growing families get organized. We have many people in our audience with growing families. Could you tell everyone how you can help each one of them depending on their situation and what you do?

For seniors, it depends on if they want to live in their home but make it safer or feel less cluttered. We go and help them identify the things that are important to them and make them accessible. If they’re prepared to let go of other things, we’re happy to go through the process of finding the right way to let go of these items, whether it’s to sell them, auction them off, or donate them. We helped a woman whose husband had passed away. She wanted to turn her apartment into a place that reflected her and what was interesting to her.

Her husband had been an artist and he had filled the apartment with his work. Everywhere she turned, she saw him. We helped her downsize and create a space that was open and lighter. All of her husband’s work was put into a room. We’re going to start working with her on clearing that room so that she can recreate it into something, maybe an office for herself, a guest room, or something like that.

Maybe choose 1 piece or 2 to incorporate but she doesn’t have to keep everything. I went through the same thing because I’m widowed. I also had to transition into a smaller space. I did a lot of that. I understand how important that is. There’s a part of you that needs to move on from the loss. There’s another part of you that is such a piece of who you are and your memory. It’s a balancing act of what you keep and what you allow to go.

I agree with that 100%. For growing families, usually, they’re upsizing because they’re having babies.

It’s the opposite of the downsizing. This is upsizing.

They’re establishing what’s going to be going on for decades. For those families, first of all, one of the things I often have to say is maybe it’s a good idea to do some swapping out with the toys because children have so much stuff. The amount of toys and stuffed animals that kids have is almost obscene. Kids would be happy with a cardboard box or the box that’s something that came in more than anything.

If you’re trying to help your child understand the process of letting go of some things as they get older, you have to do it with them and tell them, “You have a lot. Maybe there are some things that you can share with another child. Why don’t you pick out your favorites and then think about who you could give some things to who didn’t have as much as you?” I’ve worked with some families on that with their children but also helping them move to a new space and recreate the systems that change because you have a child. Also, create places where kids can hang up their coats, teach them independence, or where they can go and get their plates, bowls, forks, and things like that. It’s fun.

If you're trying to help your child understand the process of letting go of some things as they get older, you have to do it with them. Share on X

You make people’s lives run more smoothly.

That’s the idea.

Helping Through Transitions

It’s a wonderful idea. You’re filling in a blank to me because not everybody who’s overwhelmed is thinking, “How is this a learning lesson for my child about sharing and giving things away that they’re not using,” but some other child can use it so you’re also providing a life lesson that people don’t often think about. That’s wonderful. Let’s talk about all the things that you do so beautifully to help people. You have professional organizing, move management, and estate clearance.

There are different aspects of what we do. There’s an overarching family transition. That’s the best way to say it. It’s all kinds of family transitions from birth to death so we can help families who have new children or have a baby set up a nursery all the way to an older person who’s passed away and the family needs help clearing out that home or they’re going to sell it. We also move people a lot.

The move management piece is one of the biggest pieces because you can have people upsizing and other people downsizing to move into assisted living or a senior community where there isn’t as much space as where they came from. Helping people identify what’s important and make a plan for where it’s going to live in their new space is a big piece of what we do. Move management is what we love to help people with because that is one of the most stressful experiences.

An estate clearance is another big piece of what we do and that’s to support the family or the executor to deal with the stuff that’s left behind and make it possible for whatever’s going to happen to that home make it happen. We give it to the real estate broker empty painted whatever they want or if we have to bring in a stage, we’ll do that too. Finally, people who want to get organized. If somebody feels like their house is not working for them, we can help them create systems within the house so that they can maintain it themselves. Sometimes that includes labeling drawers or boxes or purchasing containers so that things have a home. That’s fun to do, too.

If someone wants to move to a different state, can you do that? Are your services limited to New York City or do they go everywhere?

We work in New York City in the tri-state area.

Tri-state is New Jersey and Connecticut?

Northern New Jersey, the Southern part of Connecticut, Westchester, Long Island, out to the Montauk. We are willing to travel. Before the pandemic, I used to go to the other end with a team member and I would assemble a local team wherever I went. We haven’t had to do that because I partner with colleagues on the other end so it makes it easier. We can keep on working here.

If they move to another state or something out of the tri-state area, you have other people on the other end who can also help them when they arrive at their destination.

The beauty of that is I have been very active in my association with NAPO.

NAPO is?

National Association of Productivity & Organizing Professionals. You can go to and find an organizer near you. If you want somebody like me near you, you can find somebody there or you can go to and you can find somebody like me in your area.

If someone wants to find someone like you and they say, “I don’t know if I need her to come. I’d like to have a Zoom meeting and discuss what I’ve got going on,” do you do stuff like that also, remotely, and all that kind of thing? If your presence isn’t needed but your guidance is needed, you can do that for people also, right?

Absolutely. It’s funny. People of your generation are all so used to doing things themselves. Do you remember in the ’70s when you had all these manuals about how to do this and that? Most of the people I know who are in their 70s like to rebuild a car engine from an instruction manual.

That wasn’t me.

My parents did it. I find that there’s this feeling that I have to do it myself. Some are capable of doing it themselves and I’m happy to support them to do it themselves because there is such an amazing thing when you identify your self-efficacy and you feel good about your accomplishment. I love that. I can help people who need some guidance and ideas on how to move forward.

It is an amazing thing when you identify your own self-efficacy and you feel good about your accomplishment. Share on X

You empower and help them to be more efficient with what they want to do. Do you have anything special to offer to our audience?

Yes, I do. It may not apply to everybody but one of the things that we put together for shows, especially when it has to do with grief, estate clearance, or anything like that is a checklist for people who need to clear the stuff. It gives you some instructions on how you can take a beat. You don’t have to make decisions right away but these are some of the most important things to think about as you’re going through the process of letting go of that loved one’s possession.

I haven’t been an organized person but I know many people are not. When they come into my home, they’ll say, “I admire how you’ve got everything,” but not everybody has the gene for organizing. I still needed help when I was in transition.

One of the best things that I always tell people is, “When you ask for help,” and there have been times when I’ve had to ask for help,” it’s probably one of the bravest things that you can do as a human being.

Asking for help is probably one of the bravest things that you can do as a human being. Share on X

Helping Is Healing

It’s a life lesson. Many of us are brought up to give to others and always be serving. Sometimes, you need someone to help you and allow that into your life. Allowing that person to give you that gift of their service and help is another aspect of life. When my husband died, I had to learn that, too. I had operations and different things going on. It was a big lesson for me. It’s exactly what you’re saying. I used to do everything and was very confident. Suddenly, I needed people to help me. They used to tell me, “Irene, don’t feel guilty. It’s a gift you’re giving me because I love you and I want to help.” Speaking of that, why do you believe that offering to help is a key to healing yourself?

It’s very simple. I’ll give you a story and this helps. During the pandemic, at the very beginning of it, I lost a friend who I had known since I moved to New York. It was somebody that I cared for. I couldn’t believe that he had passed away. It was insane. He’s my age. I thought it was crazy. I texted him and said, “Somebody called me and told me that you’re dead. You’ve got to be kidding. Get back to me.” I wrote this ridiculous text message because I couldn’t believe it. I was in deep grief. After six weeks while everybody else was doing sourdough starters and things like that, I was bereft. I had no way to connect to the people who cared about him.

He didn’t give you closure with him either because it came as such a shock. You didn’t have a chance to say anything, express yourself about him, and connect with them one more time.

That was horrible but I realized I couldn’t be in a state of grief forever. I thought, “The best way for me to get out of it is to offer some help to somebody else who needs it.” I did a little video on Zoom saying, “I’m offering my services for free. We can have a video chat. If you have a challenge, I’d love to help you.” I figured, “What was the point if I closed myself off? I wouldn’t be able to come out of this hole that I found myself in.” I cried a river of tears. The best thing I could do was to give somebody else an opportunity to change something that wasn’t working for them.

It was also a wonderful way to honor his memory. A lot of people say, “Can I make a donation to something?” You donated in your way to people and that was a beautiful way to honor your relationship with him. That’s lovely. What is Janine’s tip for finding joy in life?

I love it when you have a friend who makes you laugh. I find joy in connecting with people who are filled with positivity. That’s the best way to find joy. I’m so blessed to have an amazing team that I love to be with. I have a lot of joy when I can support them to do the work that we do for all these people. Joy is in your connection with other people that bring positive vibes and energy to every day.

That’s beautiful. I can relate to what you say. Janine, I have to say that I have moved to transition many times in my life. I fully agree from experience that what you do about moving, which is so stressful, even when the promise is to welcome change, is very needed. Whether it’s a move to a person’s dream home or first apartment, a senior who needs to downsize, or facing the challenge of dealing with the possessions of a loved one while mourning that loss, the tasks, decisions, and details often feel very overwhelming.

I can also relate to your feeling of stepping into the light when you’re helping others the way you do. How wonderful that your support and resourceful services can provide a much-needed healing bridge to those immersed in grief and other life transitions. Thank you from my heart for what you do to bring light into the lives of others and for this enlightening, informative, and uplifting interview. Here’s a loving reminder, everyone. Make sure to follow us and like us on social at @IreneSWeinberg on Instagram, Facebook, and wherever you get your podcasts, including YouTube. As I like to say, to be continued. Thank you so much, Janine.


Grief and Rebirth: Finding the Joy in Life | Janine Sarna-Jones | Stress In Transitions


Thank you so much. It was so lovely to speak with you.

Vice versa. I wanted to say to everyone, many blessings and bye for now. To be continued.


Guest’s Links:

Host’s Links:

“I just “met” you this morning and want to thank you (and Saul) for all the good work you’re doing and for helping so many heal and thrive after loss.”

Vicky C


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