Society is generally bad at dealing with grief in general. How difficult it would be if you are dealing with a uniquely different kind of sadness, such as friend loss? Irene Weinberg is joined by writer, podcaster, and certified grief educator Hannah Rumsey, who sheds light on why losing a friend is widely considered disenfranchised grief. She explains how the death of her beloved friend Lauren inspired her to launch a podcast and build a community centered on offering proper support for friend-loss grievers.
IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL HEAR ABOUT THINGS LIKE:
- How the death of her close friend helped Hannah gain more insight about herself and continues to shape her life today.
- Toxic beliefs and stories she told herself that complicated Hannah’s grief.
- The hard work of pulling out of despair and isolation.
- How story writing and writing helped Hannah unravel toxic beliefs and move towards healing.
- Why and how Hannah created a podcast and a community specifically for friend loss.
SOME QUESTIONS IRENE ASKS HANNAH:
- What kinds of toxic beliefs or stories did you tell yourself about Lauren’s death? How did that complicate your grief?
- What were some more of the helpful and healing forms of support you received during your grief journey?
- Were there any synchronicities or healing moments that came through while you were writing your play?
- What does that look like when a person has traumatic grief as opposed to what you would call normal grief? What did that do to you?
- What common patterns of doubt and anxiety have you noticed in people grieving their friends? How did recognizing those patterns help you in your own healing?
- How has your grief healed and transformed over time?
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Hannah Rumsey: The Grief No One Prepares You For When a Friend Dies
I hope this message finds each of you so very well. I’m speaking to you from my studio in West Orange, New Jersey. I could not be more delighted to have the pleasure of welcoming Hannah Rumsey, a Writer, Podcaster, and Certified Grief Educator based in Chicago. She is the Founder and Director of Friends Missing Friends, a show and community dedicated to those grieving the loss of a friend. Hannah’s journey into this work began in 2015 after the death of her beloved friend, Lauren.
Since then, she’s been writing her way through that loss from her one-woman show, 42 Days of Summer, to her memoir-in-progress, L is for Lauren. When Hannah performed 42 Days of Summer, a stranger reached out afterward to say that she too had lost a friend. That Hannah had somehow put words to the complexity and nuance of her grief, something she never thought possible. That message helped Hannah realize that the isolation and doubt she felt were far more universal than she knew.
Our stories can help and heal others, and that this work was becoming her purpose. It is so compatible with the purpose that happened to me with the show. We’re so aligned. In 2023, Hannah founded Friends Missing Friends, where she facilitates peer support groups for friend loss grievers. She also hosts a show that gives notice to that form of grief that is so often overlooked. Her mission is to make sure that grieving friends feel seen, understood, and far less alone.
I’m looking forward to talking with Hannah about her friendship with Lauren, the healing moments in her grief journey that came from writing and performing her one-person show in 2020. I’m also looking forward to talking with Hannah about her show. A community dedicated to those grieving the loss of a friend called Friends Missing Friends, common patterns of doubt and anxiety in those who are grieving, and more. Some of you tuning in may recognize pieces of your own story in this conversation. Hannah’s insights may offer exactly the kind of understanding and comfort you’ve been needing.
Here we are, Hannah. A warm welcome from my heart to yours.
Thank you so much for having me.
The Story Of Meeting And Losing Lauren
It’s my pleasure. Now that they know you from my introduction, let’s have the audience get to know you and the amazing work that you’re doing. Can you share the story of your friendship with Lauren. How did you met? What drew you to her? She had a fiery personality as it appears. Those 42 days you spent together that summer, how do they continue to shape your life? It was not a casual impact on your life.
Not at all. I met her when I was 17 and she was 15. She was a couple of years younger than me. I met her in the registration line of a summer camp. It was called Interlochen. We both played brass instruments. She played the French horn, and I played the trumpet. Especially when I was a teenager, I was so shy. I had so much trouble introducing myself to people. I felt very lonely.
My mom was in line with me. Before she left me alone at camp, I felt like she was thinking, “I’m going to make Hannah a friend.” She tapped on the shoulder of the girl directly in front of us, which ended up being Lauren. My mom was like, “This is my daughter, Hannah. She plays the trumpet.” I was so embarrassed. I was like, “Mom, I can make my own friends.”
Do you know how certain moments stick in your mind? I can remember exactly how Lauren smiled when my mom said, “You two should be friends.” It wasn’t a smile of someone who was embarrassed or like, “This lady is trying to push me onto this girl.” She was genuinely so excited at the idea of being my friend. For someone like me who was so lonely and so shy, that smile opened up my world. When we went off to explore together, it was those bonds that were so rare.
It was a click.
An immediate click. I feel like we knew each other in a past life or something because it was so easy. For those 42 days, because it was a six-week camp, we spent every day together. One time, I did the math because I wanted proof while I was grieving that we were as close as I felt. I did the math, and the hours we spent together would have been about ten years if we were adults who saw each other a couple of hours a week. I needed that proof because I was like, “I know we were close,” but I was doubting myself. I was like, “It was only 42 days.” I’m learning that time doesn’t matter.
On the other side, it does not matter at all. We all take a little offense at that, but it’s true. It does matter. You’re right. Let me ask you. What kinds of toxic beliefs or stories did you tell yourself about her death? How did that complicate your grief?
One of the toxic beliefs I had was that I was so scared that she did not see me as a best friend. I saw her as a best friend because after she died, I no longer had that immediate reciprocation or immediate proof that she cared about me. Where when I text her and she texts me back, or I say, “How are you?” and she responds. In those first months, it felt one-sided.
I got so scared that it was all in my head. I was like, “I didn’t mean as much to her as she did to me.” That became a belief that devastated me. It hurt my healing process because it made me focus on the wrong thing. Instead of focusing on the love between us, I was focused on the label of best friend. We didn’t have that label because we didn’t “agree” on that label while she was alive. I started to question what our relationship was because it didn’t have that firm label, and it took me years to untangle that.
How old were you at this time?
When she died, I was 23.
That sounds like a throwback to your childhood stuff. It was your inner child who was so insecure and didn’t have the self-esteem to know that she was wonderful and that this person should certainly love you, too.
You’re right. I feel like I regressed to previous insecurities. I had someone say that a lot of times, our attachment style can impact how we grieve. At the worst of times, I’m an anxious attachment style. Which is where I’m like, “What do they think about me?” That came out like a fire hose when I was grieving. Someone named that. I feel like naming what’s happening can be so helpful. When someone said, “That’s the anxious attachment style.” I was like, “Thank you. I thought I was going crazy or something.”
Our attachment style can impact how we grieve. Share on X
Different Forms Of Healing Support For Friend Loss
A beautiful thing that helped you in understanding how you were responding to her death was that it gave you more insight into yourself. What were some more of the helpful and healing forms of support you received during this grief journey of yours? What support felt least helpful? I also want to ask you. Have you spoken or connected with her through a medium or anyone like that?
I have been to a couple of mediums. They were good experiences because they confirmed what I felt already in my heart, which is that her spirit is still there. She is connected to me. What has been most impactful wasn’t what I heard from the mediums, but the signs that she’s given me.
Such as?
There are so many. One of my favorite ones was on her birthday. Her birthday is July 19th, and it’s also the day of her passing. It’s an incredibly emotional and difficult day. On July 19th, I texted her and said, “Please give me a sign. I need a sign.” I continue to want that reassurance even after she has given me signs.
I can relate to that.
I have an iPhone. If you don’t have a contact photo, it has their initials in the circle. For years, ever since I’ve known her, I have never had a contact photo for her. It had her initials. On July 19th, I got a notification that said, “Lauren has updated her contact photo.” Her contact photo was a photo of her and me together at Interlochen. It was my favorite photo of us together. It’s still there to this day, where the contact photo is a picture of us. The fact that it happened at all, and then it happened on that specific day. I feel like she was like, “Hannah might question this, so I’ll make sure she knows it’s me.” It’s like, “Lauren updated the photo.”
There are no accidents with that. They are very helpful. They’re around us. I’m glad you found out that she hasn’t left your side. She’s still around you.
I wanted to make sure I also answered the other parts of your question, which were what support has been helpful and what hasn’t. As a society, we don’t learn how to best support people who are grieving. Even with the best of intentions, a lot of people say things that are hurtful or unhelpful. Some of the worst things people said to me were when I showed up to work two days after Lauren died. I didn’t get bereavement leave for a friend’s death.
We do not learn how to best support grieving people. Even with the best intentions, a lot of people say hurtful or unhelpful things. Share on X
I showed up and my eyes were puffy. I had been crying for 48 straight hours. I was stunned. My coworkers knew what happened. One coworker turned to look at me and said, “One day, you won’t think about your friend so much anymore.” It was like she had thrown a bucket of cold water on me. It was so shocking her saying that.
It was so insensitive. Did she think your head was on her shoulders? You needed to be honored for your process.
It’s the opposite of acknowledging someone’s pain. I was feeling so deeply misunderstood. I was like, “You don’t understand. I’m going to think about her for the rest of my life.”
This woman became your motivation for doing what you’re doing and supporting people because she was not at all supportive of you.
It was comments like that. That’s an example of many different times. I feel like it’s because, as a society, we’re bad at dealing with grief in general. Also, because friend loss grief is disenfranchised and not respected. I feel like she would have been less likely to say that to me if my parent had died. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe she would have said that.
Pulling Out Of Despair And Isolation
I agree with you. I’ve also seen it where people have different expectations and don’t understand where the person is coming from in their grief. It’s a fascinating story. It is so true. You were dismissed. She dismissed you and that hurt. What pulled you out of that?
It took me a few years to pull out of the despair and isolation. What started to pull me out was when I started to write my story. As you mentioned in the introduction, I started by writing a one-woman show called 42 Days of Summer, which was about the 42 days we spent together, or the 6 weeks. It was so incredibly healing. I had to take baby steps. First, I wrote a five-minute story, and I had to read it in front of the class because I wrote it in class.
I’m standing there, reading my five-minute story and bawling. You can’t understand a word I’m saying because I’m crying. I had to get through that to then be able to tell a ten-minute story and be slightly coherent, and then tell a fifteen-minute story and finally be coherent. I was scared to move through those parts, the parts where every cell of your body hurts to write one five-minute story. Once I pushed through that and felt those emotions, I was able to do a whole one-hour show. I never would have thought in a million years that I was capable of doing that.
You hadn’t done anything like this before, right?
No.
For a shy person to decide to write a show and get up in front of all those people. That’s amazing.
Thank you.
When you were writing and performing it, did any healing moments happen? Were there any synchronicities or healing moments that came through while you were writing your play?
The first time I performed it, for some reason, I didn’t put two and two together. It should have been so obvious. The day of my performance, I checked my phone, and the date was July 19th. I was like, “Of course, I would perform it on July 19th.” I didn’t schedule that on purpose. That was her saying, “Keep going. You’re on the right track.” It was a lot of things like these synchronicities and signs.
As you’d mentioned in the intro, I got an email after I did the show. It was over Zoom. A lot of people saw it over Zoom because it was during COVID. I got this email from a stranger who is now a good friend. She said, “Thank you so much. I also lost a friend, and you put my specific pain into words, which I did not think was possible.”
That was when I realized that not only did I get this huge unburdening from writing my story and telling my story. I had also reached someone else. It was like, “This is what I need to do with the pain. This is how we heal. We tell each other our stories. We connect to each other and go, ‘You, too? That’s also how I feel. I’m not all alone.’” It was this huge a-ha moment for me.
It points to the fact that we are all in this collective together. You get to choose which voices you want to hear. The lady putting you down for your grief over your friend isn’t the voice you want to hear. You want to go towards more positive people. I do want to ask you also how your friend passed. Can you talk about that at all?
I can. First of all, I’ll say this one thing and then I’ll say how it happened. She died a couple of years ago. It was not long ago that I realized that her death was a traumatic death, which meant that I was experiencing traumatic grief. Knowing these terms of what’s happening can be so helpful because we think, “That’s why I was feeling this way. I’m not making stuff up in my head.” It took me that long to learn that traumatic grief can be different from other types of grief.
Explain that to us because there are people tuning in who may be going through very traumatic grieving. What does that look like when a person has traumatic grief as opposed to what you would call normal grief? What did that do to you?
There are so many different forms of traumatic grief, and it happens all the time. What it can do is it can complicate our grieving process. This was my experience. It can also keep us where we experience trauma over and over. With her death, she was studying abroad, and she fell off a balcony and died. In itself, that’s already a traumatic death.
It’s so shocking for that to happen to her.
It’s shocking. It’s unexpected. It’s horrible.
Where was she?
She was studying abroad in Spain.
Becoming A Grief Coach
When did you become a grief coach? When were you inspired and motivated to become a grief coach from all of this? As you’re healing yourself and identifying the traumatic grief and all. What occurred for you to walk through this journey of becoming a grief coach?
I first started doing the show, Friends Missing Friends, and then I saw David Kessler, who is a grief expert who wrote the book, Finding Meaning, and other grief books, was leading a grief educator certification program. I was immediately like, “I’m signing up. I’m doing that.”
You were like, “I can ask him my question about my grief.”
He’s amazing. I love his teaching style and his thoughts on grief. I took his program, and that solidified my thinking, “I’m going to be a peer-to-peer support.” I had been dismissing that, like, “It’s just peer-to-peer.” He said repeatedly, “Many grievers seek peer support. Do not dismiss being a peer and supporting other grievers. That’s incredibly important.”
It’s true. You see it more with widows’ groups. There are often very supportive widows’ groups. I’ve interviewed men who are forming groups. You’re doing this dynamic, wonderful thing for people who lose their dear friends. A lot of times, from my personal experience, a friend can mean more to you than your blood relatives.
They get you, appreciate you, and support you, whereas your other blood relatives are poo-pooing you whatever the heck they’re coming from. It’s important to have a friend as you did. You became a grief coach after you worked with David Kessler. You have this show, Friends Missing Friends and this whole community. Do you want to tell us about that? Tell us about your podcast, your community, and the mission behind creating a space specifically for those grieving the loss of a friend.
My show, I created first. It was to open up the conversation. I was like, “Let’s talk about it.” With friend loss, I wasn’t finding much media on it. Through that and having conversations with other friend loss grievers, I learned that the number one thing many friend loss grievers are looking for is community and a place to belong.
Over and over, I was hearing from others that they could not find a single friend loss grief group. Even one. They would say they would Google it, and pet loss groups would come up, or grief groups that have nothing to do with friends would come up. Google did not understand what they were asking for when they would Google, “I lost a friend. Help me find friend loss grief group.”
After hearing that so many times and me also searching and also finding nothing. I was like, “This is a huge gap that I’m going to do my best to fill, so that there’s somewhere for people to go.” It’s what you were saying. We need to be around people who have experienced a similar loss, so that we can feel seen and understood.
I want to ask you something also about David Kessler. Instead of the five stages of grief, he talks about the six stages of grief, which he calls finding meaning. Is what you’re doing with your podcast and your community the meaning you’ve attributed to your life moving forward?
He has said, to clarify that it’s not finding meaning in the death. It’s finding meaning in your life after the death. Some people go, “There’s no meaning in the death.” That’s not what that means. I wanted to make that clear.
Please do. That’s why we’re doing this. It is so that people understand that. This is great.
Finding meaning in my life after the death has been creating a community that will hopefully continue to grow so that friend loss grievers won’t feel alone, because I did for so many years. Dozens of friendless grievers I’ve talked to have also felt alone. I’m like, “We’re all suffering silently and in silos. That doesn’t make sense.” That’s my purpose.
Recognizing The Common Patterns Of Down And Anxiety
That’s wonderful. Instead of sitting by yourself, crying and saying, “People think I’m cuckoo.” You’re sitting there, crying and saying, “Welcome. Join the rest of us cuckoos. We’re all in the same spot that you are.” What common patterns of down and anxiety have you noticed in people grieving their friends? How did recognizing those patterns help you in your own healing? I always say you’re healed, or you’re always a work in progress.
I’m always a work in progress, but I’ve come a long way. Talking to dozens of friend loss grievers through my show and the groups I have facilitated showed me how the doubts and questions that were swirling through my head are incredibly common. Those were questions like, “Were we as close as I thought? Did she care about me as much as I cared about her? Did we know each other long enough? Was she actually my best friend? Am I exaggerating how sad I should be?”
I realized that friend loss grief is disenfranchised. Those are the messages the external world is giving us, often subliminally. That gets internalized. Those become questions that we ask ourselves. They become doubts. When I realized that, those questions lost their power over me because I understood they were coming from the outside world. Not from me.
It’s so important to recognize that. That helps you to help other people when they’re coming through with the same toxic messages, feelings, or whatever. You can say, “I was here, too, but you don’t have to see it this way.” There are probably a lot of people who’d love to tune in to your show. They probably lost friends, and they’d like to become a part of this. We’ve talked about how your grief has transformed and the point of healing you’re in. What have you got for our audience? Do you have any special promo or affiliate program for our audience so that they can get to know you and what you do, and give you a chance to help them out?
I created a discount code or a promo code. It is REBIRTH2026 for 15% off for the whole 2026. The main thing I offer is called the Friends Missing Friends Collective. It’s an online community of friend loss grievers, so that you do not have to be alone. You can immediately connect with other people who will understand. You should not have to go through this alone.
Friend Loss: Friends Missing Friends is an online community of friend loss grievers so they do not have to be alone.
Why You Should Go Out Of Your Way To Heal Yourself
What is your message? Why should everybody not go through this alone and attach to the help you can give them? Why should people go out of their way to heal? They’ve had this terrible event. Instead of sitting in the swamp of it, why would they want to use it? You know people who are so stuck. What is the importance of unsticking yourself and moving forward in your life?
I love that term, moving forward because it means that we’ve integrated them. We’re continuing to live rather than “moving on.” What helped me with this is that I realized that for years, I was thinking that in order to love her, I had to contain that love within me. It’s almost like shutting this treasure chest and locking it. If I keep it in there, then that’ll show that I love her.
You were like, “It’s sacred. The key is there, and I’m holding that.”
That proves it’s sacred. It was through experience, healing, writing, reflecting, and seeking help that I realized over time that opening that up and connecting with others was a more powerful way to express my love for her. It has amplified my love for her and helped me to even channel it into my love for other people. That’s how I see the healing and the moving forward.
Why Grief And Joy Can Coexist
What is the Hannah tip for finding joy in life? A lot of people don’t know that if they’re grieving, they can also have joy.
It’s so true that both can exist. I was talking to a grief counselor, and she had a great metaphor for this. I’m imagining an oscillating fan that’s going back and forth. When it’s pointed in one direction, you’re focused on your life and on living. When it’s pointed in the other direction, you can dig into your grief and emotions.
It doesn’t mean that you’re ignoring the grief and the life. You can go back and forth. Going out and seeking joy, laughing, and being in the present moment doesn’t have to mean you’re ignoring or pushing down your grief. Also, being in sadness and digging into your grief doesn’t have to mean that you’re ignoring the joy. You can do both. They can coexist.
Go out of your way and seek joy. Being in the present moment does not have to mean you are ignoring or pushing down your grief. Share on X
To me, it’s like you’re role modeling for other people that are coming along. As a grief coach, how exactly do you work? If someone contacts you and say, “I’m grieving, I’m in trouble. What can I do?” How do you work with people? Do you bring them different modalities? What does it look like from your perspective as a grief coach?
As a peer-to-peer supporter and grief educator, I support not only with my personal experience, because I feel like that can be helpful to reflect. It’s like, “I understand. This is what helped me.” Also, as someone who’s been trained in grief support and different modalities from David Kessler. I can also help people find further support. It takes a team or a village to help support a griever. If someone comes to me, I could also say, “What are you looking for? I can help you research.” Researching when you’re grieving is unbelievably overwhelming. That’s also something I want to help people with.
They can also tune in to the show and listen to you. They can also hear many people who have modalities to help with grief or have lived the kind of experience or worse than you have, which gives people a lot of comfort, I know. Hannah, I want to thank you from my heart for your willingness to speak so honestly and openly about friendship, loss, and the quiet corners of grief. It offers a validation that many people rarely receive. What a gift to hear your story, the uplifting meaning that emerged from it, and the healing that has come from it. I truly wish you abundant blessings.
Thank you so much.
As I like to say, bye for now.
Bye for now. I love that.
Guest’s Links:
- Connect with Hannah Rumsey on LinkedIn
- Friends Missing Friends
- Friends Missing Friends Collective
- Connect with Friends Missing Friends on Instagram
- Connect with Friends Missing Friends on Facebook
- LifeBooks
- Finding Meaning
About Hannah Rumsey
Hannah Rumsey is a writer, podcaster, and certified Grief Educator based in Chicago. Since the death of her beloved friend Lauren in 2015, she hasn’t been able to stop writing about it — starting with her one woman show “42 Days of Summer” to her memoir-in-progress “L is for Lauren”. In 2023, she founded Friends Missing Friends, a podcast and community that offers peer-support friend-loss grief groups. Her mission is to speak out about how friend-loss is a disenfranchised grief, and nurture a community where friend-loss grievers feel seen and understood.
