GAR 86 | Heart And Soul Productions


David is a Functional Consciousness and Energy Coach. His amazing ability to see energy enables him to help individuals release embedded patterns of behavior, resulting in stronger personal intuition, enhanced self-healing abilities and sustainable resilience in their daily lives.

Lilla is a Business Professional and Shining Light Parent, which means that even though her daughter Alex has left her physical body, her light has continued to shine in her mother’s heart and home.  After a tragic car accident ended her daughter Alex’s life, a devastated Lilla found her way to David who helped her to re-connect to her self-love, enhance her intuition and self-heal her grief.


Also for Grief and Rebirth listeners, you can get a four-session group workshop from David for only $249!  Note – the first session will be closer to two hours due to questions, etc.  This four-session group workshop is a reduced rate of $249/per person. You can also get a two-session group workshop for $149/per person. To sign up, please email us at


Use HEAL50 for $50 off of one private with David and Heal100 for $100 off of a series of four privates.


  • The profound Near-Death Experience that transformed David’s life.
  • How her deceased daughter Alex guided Lilla to heal her grief.
  • How David’s unique healing work brought incredible transformation into Lilla’s life.
  • Alex’s amazing Directive to Lilla about David.



  • David, what exactly is a Functional Consciousness and Energy Coach, and what does a person’s energy look like to you?
  • Lilla, how has your work with David enabled you to enhance your connection to Alex?
  • As the Founders of Heart and Soul Productions, you have offered to facilitate a special grief healing workshop for Grief and Rebirth podcast. What would it be like?

Listen to the podcast here


David Router, Functional Consciousness And Energy Coach, And Healer Along With Lilla Swanson, Business Professional And Shining Light Parent – Founders Of Heart And Soul Productions






I have two remarkable guests for you to meet. David Router from Noosa, Australia, and Lilla Swanson from Scottsdale, Arizona. David is a functional consciousness and energy coach and the author of the book, Conversations Through My Soul of Presence. His amazing ability to see energy enables him to help individuals release embedded patterns of behavior resulting in stronger personal intuition, enhanced self-healing abilities, and sustainable resilience in their daily lives. David’s clients include members of Helping Parents Heal, the inspiring non-profit organization dedicated to assisting bereaved parents.

Lilla is a business professional and Shining Light Parent, which means that even though her daughter Alex has left her physical body, her light has continued to shine at her mother’s heart and home. After a tragic car accident ended her daughter Alex’s life, a devastated Lilla found her way to David, who helped her reconnect to her self-love, enhance her intuition, and self-heal her grief.

Together, David and Lilla are the Founders of Heart and Soul Productions, which was created to share the profound insights and techniques David uses for people who are grieving, have experienced trauma, and more, enabling them to replace sadness and loss with self-love and gratitude. This is going to be a very moving interview that will showcase the healing work Lilla did with David after she lost her daughter Alex, and Alex’s directive to Lilla to bring David and his healing gifts to the world. It is my honor to be a part of that directive by introducing all of you to Lilla and David on the show.

Lilla and David, I want to warmly welcome you both to the show. Let’s begin our interview with this question for David. While other little boys played with cars and trucks, you played with energy and communicated with the spirits of those who had passed. When you grew up, you became a highly successful chef in both Australia and New Zealand. A life-changing wake-up call, a profound near-death experience completely transformed your life. Please share your journey to embrace the amazing gift you were born with.

I have probably a little bit different life. As a child, I could see ghosts and stuff moving around. Even when I was probably 4 or 5 years old, the first ghost, I still got quite a shock when I could see it and I sent it to the light. It’s not always easy being a little bit different. I remember walking around my home when someone was sick and I’d say what I call a flowing prayer. You send energy to people to help them heal.

You are always connecting to that person’s spirit because all healing starts with the person’s spirit because it is the backbone of everything. As I got older it was pretty hard because knowing when people are going to go to the other side and insisting friends call their parents or something is not always easy. I shut off for quite a while because it’s not great knowing all that stuff.

If you can channel, you can channel, and if you can see energy, you can always do it. I started again towards the end of my twenties when everything wasn’t working out fairly well in my life because if you suppress your intuition and your instinct, then you make a lot of dopey decisions. Also, I wasn’t very happy. Once I started again, I had to learn to re-channel again, which is why I’ve helped a lot of mediums with what to do and how they can turn off because a lot of mediums don’t know how to turn on and turn off.

As far as my work, it opened up quite a plethora of things. I thought, “There are a lot of people who I knew who were having a lot of trouble with anxiety. Also, a lot of people had burnout and things like that.” I said, “Do you mind if I try and help you?” It turned into a full-time job. Before that, I did work as a chef, and it’s not an easy profession. You got restaurants going here, there, and everywhere. It’s stress on all value.

That was quite a gift also that you had to be able to do something like that.

As strange as it might sound, you tuned into the essences and elements. It’s easy to put stuff together. You don’t even have to try it sometimes. You know what it’s going to taste like. After being a chef for years, I had enough and I was sick of it. I bought a concrete truck with the influence of my ex-brother-in-law who, unfortunately, has passed over.

I hadn’t long bought it and I was driving down the road on a Friday afternoon. It was the last delivery of the day. There was a long weekend. We’ve gone up the highway at 2:00 AM where they’re building a bridge and everything shut down very quickly. I’m doing 100 kilometers an hour. Concrete trucks are top-heavy. They tip over very easily. People don’t realize that. If I kept going, I would’ve run into all these cars full of family. All of a sudden I thought, “I can’t do that.” I swung off the road because I had nowhere to go. I couldn’t pull up quick enough.

You were looking at you were going to just crash the truck.

I was going to kill families in front of me if I kept going. There’s no way I could have done that. They were building a new road on the side and I swung over the side there. As soon as I swung the truck over the side, I had a complete out-of-body experience. I was looking down at the truck and I was looking at the truck swinging. I’m thinking, “How the hell is that not falling over?” It’s because they only get to about there and they tip because I’d had the truck sitting on three wheels a couple of times. All of a sudden, my grandfather was driving the concrete truck with my uncle sitting in it. I’m just looking down as a passenger.

Is this your deceased grandfather?

They’re both deceased. I kept going down until I got to the other side of the road. I’m watching this all happen. As the truck got to the other side of the road, I felt myself come back into my body, which was quite an experience as well. I remember it was strange because I was putting on the maxi brakes. It’s like I wasn’t even in my body. You can imagine how much I was shaking. I hopped out of the truck and I looked what I’d driven over.

There wasn’t a scratch on the truck, but I shouldn’t have been able to drive over what I drove over. There’s no way in the world. The whole truck should have been a ride-off. There should be nothing left. I drove over the whole lot, got to the other side, and put on the brakes. There was not a problem. That’s when I heard my grandfather say, “Do what you meant to be doing, my boy.”

Did you get right away what that was?

I knew what he was talking about because I was always doing that part-time as well.

You’re a functional consciousness and energy coach. People are saying, “What is that, David?” What does a person’s energy look like to you? What are some of the insights and techniques you use to inspire people to live life to the fullest?

Every day, I get a download on how to help people. They show me how to move energy, what to do, and so on. Every day is a lesson, without fail. Some days, it’s an hour. Some days, it might be 3 or 4 hours. The thing is when I look at people, they look a little bit like an electric board. As I look through them, I can see where they’re blocked.

Every day is a lesson, without fail. Share on X

We all have lots of blocks all the way through our bodies. Where our body isn’t moving, it’s not moving because of stress, something we’ve gone through, or something we’ve experienced. We need to shift all those blocks. It goes back in a lot of ways. Our energy and our consciousness have to work and they have to move. If our energy doesn’t move, if you’ve ever heard of epigenetics, it’s where our energy takes on what is around us.

What I’ve found is that if our energy isn’t moving, we take on more of what’s going on around us, which means that we don’t often know because we take on those feelings. We take on those situations. We take them as ourselves, which means that sometimes we think it’s all about us, but it’s not. This means that we can change and find how to use our energy because not all energy is good energy and not all consciousness is good consciousness.

As we find how to move our energy, then straight away, we can learn to use the whole consciousness of our body because most of the time, it’s stuck up in here. It’s got to be through our body. However, when we meet somebody for the first time, we know exactly what that person’s like because we can read them because everybody scans. Everybody doesn’t realize that. It’s because our whole body’s like a big satellite dish.

GAR 86 | Heart And Soul Productions

Heart And Soul Productions: As we find how to move our energy, then straight away we can learn to use the whole consciousness of our body.

As soon as you meet them, you know what they’re like. They haven’t said a word, but we know they’re sleazy. They’re not very nice or, “We want to get to know them,” but you’ve got to be able to do that to you. I teach people how you scan that person and how to do it to yourself so you find out how your body is working, its function, and where it’s not functioning.

Where it is functioning, we keep that and we’ve got to listen to the subtle energy because physical energy is very loud and rambunctious. It’s also quite passive-aggressive. I teach people how to listen to the subtleties and how to listen to subtle energy because that’s where we get our true intuition and instinctive messages.

That’s how people turn back on. It’s because everybody, in some way, has detuned or tuned off in some part of their life, but it also means that we use all these different types of consciousness. Also, everybody thinks that as soon as we have a trauma or something that has gone on, we bury it deep inside us. Part of that is true, but everybody’s energy or consciousness splits 50/50.

This means every person I’ve ever met in my life has got a big ghost to themselves following behind. I know it sounds weird. If your energy and your consciousness are sitting out here, it can be easily played with. That’s why I help heaps of people like nurses or highly sensitive people. There are heaps of highly sensitive people out there and they don’t know why they’re walking around on eggshells a lot of the time. It’s because you can feel everything that’s going on around you.

It’s everyone else’s shoes instead of their own.

Everybody, in some way, has these bits sitting out here. When you go through a huge trauma, a lot of you are sitting outside, which is what happens when you lose a loved one especially if you’ve gone through something quite traumatic when that’s happened. Part of you will follow that other person to the side. When you have all types of energy, you have physical energy, but you also have spirit energy. I teach people how to use their spirit energy.

Not only just use their heart, but they need to know how to use their soul because that’s where all our directives come from. Our soul has energy. It has a consciousness. I teach people how to turn it on. It brings people to find confidence in themselves, people who have lost their confidence, can’t even concentrate, or they can’t sleep. There’s a whole list of things that everybody can help. There’s no person you can’t help, but it also turns on what is more innately you.

You help people to help themselves.

You are giving people the skills. I’ve worked with all sorts of people, from doctors and scientists to little kids. However, scientists can do it in two weeks what it used to take a month to do. It helps trauma nurses. I’ve done a lot of work with the medical community because they all get overstimulated by all the stress and the trauma from everybody so they all burn out. It’s the same with CEOs and everybody like that. Everybody burns out.

As you find how to use your energy and your consciousness, you turn it back on. You start to live again and you find all the good stuff in life. Otherwise, we focus on the real physical stuff. “I’ve got to go buy myself a new Maserati.” It’s like, “It’s only just another car.” We try and fill our lives with all these physical things, but that doesn’t make us happy.

I’m excited to learn from you because it seems to me that with the world struggling now with COVID and all, you have all these emergency workers, these nurses, and these medical people and they don’t even know that as much as they are helping people, that someone like you can help them with their burnout, exhaustion, and all of that, which is so amazing.

This leads me to our friend Lilla here. Lilla, could you tell us about your life because I know that this is about what brought you to David and all that. Tell us about your life, both before and after your daughter’s tragic car accident, and how Alex guided you to heal your grief over your loss and inspired you to find joy again in her honor.

I had a very successful career and was fortunate enough to retire early and stay home with the kids. To me, that meant volunteering at everything I could. I was the head of the board of the school. I did development for the Little League. I managed a lacrosse team. I did the Girl Scout Cookie Mom. I was involved and engaged. I enjoyed being with my children because I learned a lot from them.

How many children do you have, Lilla?

I had Alex and I have a son. He was twelve when Alex transitioned. They were very close because we spent our summers traveling. They were best friends. When Alex transitioned after a car accident, I didn’t have the strength to find a path to heal for myself, but I felt like I had to find a path for Pierce because they were so close and he was so young.

I didn’t want his life defined by losing his sister at twelve. It was such a critical time for him. Also, they were very close. That was what drove me to try and find some way to heal him not realizing that while I was doing that, I was going to find a path to heal myself. That was the only reason why I persevered regardless of the outcome of who I met and what I did. If it didn’t work, I kept moving.

Immediately I started working with grief counselors, psychiatrists, and psychologists. It was the more traditional Western approach because that’s all I knew. I didn’t know anything about energy or spirit. I was a Catholic growing up in Catholicism. This work doesn’t always collaborate philosophically. It wasn’t something that I was even exposed to.

I started going down a more traditional path. One of the women I met was an adolescent grief counselor, but she didn’t counsel adolescents. She counseled people who counsel adolescents. She didn’t have an active practice anymore because she was helping those who helped adolescents. I called her office to see if I could get an appointment because I read about that, but that wasn’t enough for me.

I called to see if I get an appointment and she answered the phone because her receptionist had gone out to lunch. I explained to her what I was trying to do, and she said, “I never answer my phone. I’m going to take this as a sign. I’ll meet with you.” I met with her and explained the situation. My son would not go to see anybody who would not talk about it. She said, “I will give you the tools and then you can work with him. You come back to me every month and you tell me how he’s progressing.”

I did that for about 4 or 5 months. The last time I went in to see her, she reached over to me. At the end of the meeting, she grabbed my hands and said, “This has never happened to me before, but your daughter is here. She is telling me that you are done with me. You need to continue on your path and that Pierce is healing.” She let go of my hands and said, “I guess we’re done. I’ve never had that happen to me, but it’s pretty profound. I’m guessing that your daughter is going to help.” I left that meeting and I was a little stunned.

Were you a little annoyed or were you inspired?

I was inspired. I was grateful for her honesty because she showed authenticity and transparency in an environment where she was as surprised about having Alex there as I was. She was honest in what she said. It catapulted me to the next path. Some acquaintances I had recommended these energy guys out of Croatia who channel energy. I went and met with them and they were wonderful. It was like going to the gas station. I’d go to see them and I would get full up. I would feel good and be able to sleep, and then a week later, I’d have to go back to the gas station.

After a couple of months of that, I asked them if they could teach me how to do it, and they wouldn’t because they channel. I went to the person who introduced me to them and said, “Do you know anyone who can teach me how to do this?” She said, “I have a woman in Australia that I’ve worked with.” She put me in touch with a woman who works with David and does a lot of energy work. I worked with Sarah for a while.

I asked Sarah if she could recommend somebody, and she said, “The guy I go to, I call him my energy engineer, is David. I will recommend you to him, but it’s important for you to understand a couple of things about him. One is he expects you to do the work. By that, he expects you to do what he teaches you to do so that you continue to get stronger and heal. Also, he will not be someone that will channel for you.”

“He’s a person who expects you to do the work, and once you’re strong enough, you’re gone. He doesn’t like long-term relationships. He wants to build strength and he expects you to take responsibility for your energy and for the practice, and then it’s on you.” I did. The first day I worked with David was March of 2014, and that was the first time I slept completely. I woke up the next morning and I hadn’t felt like that in years.

It was like it was a new day. While I was far from being healed, I knew that there was hope. I knew that I had found someone who was going to be able to help me find a way to heal and, through that, Pierce. I worked with David regularly. In retrospect, I was dead inside. I was completely turned off, and there were a lot of reasons for it. It took a long time to turn back on, but I learned a lot about what was going on around me.

I was able to help Pierce, who now is doing extremely well. I was able to find joy and purpose again. When I was done with David and I was ready to go on my own, I had a dream. Alex has only come to me a couple of times in dreams. She came to me and said, “I brought you to David. I want you to bring him to the world.” I started recruiting David. It took about three months because he was living in Australia, and why he would want to travel over the world just for this?

He was doing fine.

He lives on the beach. He lives in a beautiful town. At the time, I didn’t realize where he lived and what his life was like to ask this kind of a request from him. Eventually, he agreed. I went to a lawyer in town because I met some people who wanted to include him in a healing event in Sedona. I went to an immigration lawyer to get him a visa so that he could work in the States.

I was going in asking for a visa allowing him to work in the States, and the lawyer that I contacted, while I was talking to her said, “Your daughter came to me and said, ‘He needs an E-2 and not the visa that you’re applying for.’” She goes, “I don’t want to freak you out, but I have a spirit connection, and my daughter is an energy healer in New York. I don’t tell a lot of people this, but when a spirit comes to me, I tell you because I think we should listen to her.’”

We did apply for an E-2 visa and he got it in record time. She’s been an immigration lawyer for many years. She said she’s never seen an application move so quickly. From the time he had his interview until he got his visa was seven days. She had told me it would be two months before we’d hear from them. That was in November, and in December, the US stopped accepting visas.

There are all these confirmations that continued to come through. We did that event. I have a very strong business background in sales, marketing, operations, and strategy. I took all the toolkits I had and worked to build Dave a website and reach out to a community that might accept him. We got involved with Helping Parents Heal early on. I’ve learned a lot, but a lot of what I’ve learned is that people have to be ready to heal.

Had I met David early on, I know I couldn’t have done the work and I know that I wouldn’t have been open to the work Healing is a personal thing and people have to find their path and respect their path. As I said, my path was convoluted because I was doing everything for Pierce until I woke up one day and realized that I was in a much better place. That allowed me actually to do more for Pierce.

Healing is a personal thing, and people have to find their own path. Share on X

I’m relating to what you’re saying about Pierce because I’m sure one of the reasons he healed was you were healing, and that made all the difference in the world to him. When I had my accident, our readers know I was in a terrible car accident and my husband passed during that accident, I’ve done the same as you.

I’ve had a similar story where I worked with traditional healers, and then I also worked with energy healers to get to where I am, which is why I’m bringing all of this out to the world. My son has said to me, “Mom, there’s been nothing worse in my life than watching you in total despair, and nothing better than seeing you being able to have joy again.” That is extremely healing for them as it is for you. I like to tell people that you need to heal not just the people around you but yourself because of the ripple effect. It affects people around you. I read that Alex taught you forgiveness and that David has enabled you to enhance your connection to her. How did that work?

When I lost my child, I felt somehow responsible. It’s an ingrained DNA of parenting that you want to protect your children and you do everything you can to protect your children. When something this dramatic happens, you immediately start thinking, “What could I have done differently?” That is a very bad place to be. It’s because you are already stuck in grief and loss and then start feeling like it was your fault.

GAR 86 | Heart And Soul Productions

Heart And Soul Productions: When something dramatic happens, you immediately start thinking about what you could have done differently? That is a very bad place to be because already stuck in grief and loss.

Why don’t you punish yourself a little bit in addition to everything else you’re going through?

As I said, I’ve seen enough through my work with David that there are a number of people who never move out of that stage, but I didn’t move out for me. I moved out for Pierce. Having someone who kept me focused on a task that was about someone else instead of me made the way. However, in working with Dave, immediately, the first thing I realized was that I had lost the connection to my self-love, which allows you to feel all the things that you shouldn’t be feeling.

By reconnecting to that, I was also able to connect to forgiveness. The first step of forgiveness in this situation was to forgive myself, and I did. Also, to forgive everything associated with this situation because what I learned was this crisis and bad events in our lives, we don’t have a choice. Our only choice is how we deal with it.

What I’ve learned in talking to you is that these are gifts. These obstacles, challenges, and events that create pain and suffering are gifts to enhance our ability to strengthen our souls and be stronger spirits. These are our learnings. This is my earthly education. I can go to class, work hard to accept these and find out why I had to deal with this and what I’m going to do with it once I go through it, or I could sit in there and be stuck.

The purpose of the show is so that people know that they don’t have to remain stuck. It was perfectly eloquently inserted and you didn’t even know. David, I know people come to you from all over the world. How do you work with them? You’re seeing me on a Zoom and you’re knowing everything about me already. How do you work with people like that?

I’ve been doing this for a long time. Before there was Zoom, there was Skype. I used to help people even on the phone in different parts. You can read people’s energy easily and quickly.

You can, but not everyone else can, like you.

We all have gifts, and it’s my God-given gift. I do teach people how to use all the gifts that they have at their disposal so that they can do a lot of the stuff that I teach them how to do. It’s quite simple. I learned to do the basics when I was a child. I ask everybody to come along, be childlike, and have fun. It’s because if you take it too seriously, nothing happens and nothing works, but having said that, there’s one thing I’d like that Lilla didn’t recap on. I’d like Lilla to put it in her own words because she said that when Alex passed, she said to Lilla, “Would you like me to live in grief for the rest of your life or be unhappy if you passed?” You can say your words, Lilla.

That was after we started working together and I was trying to figure out what to say to some people that were blocked. That was the second time she came to me and she said, “Ask them how they would want their mom or dad to feel if they had passed over at eighteen. Would they want them to die with them or would they want them to try and find the strength to find a path to heal so that they could live the life that they were intended to live?”

I thought that was a good point because when you turn it around like that, “No, I wouldn’t have wanted my mom to certainly be where I was after Alex died for the rest of her life.” It gives you another perspective on forgiveness because they’ve forgiven you. They want you to find joy again and peace. If you are open to it, they will come to you and they will give you signs all the time that they are around you and they’re happy. The connection still exists even though the physical one is gone. The spiritual one is still there.

Did Alex give you any special signs that you get a lot? Are there particular signs you get from Alex?

She comes as a hummingbird. We have very good family friends who were at two of their children’s weddings. The third daughter was getting married the year after Alex passed and I had her wedding shower at my house. Outside of where the baby shower was, a hummingbird sat in a tree for an hour. It never moved. Everybody took pictures of it. We all knew that it was Alex and she was at the wedding shower. There are a lot of those.

There are so many things. I had an Apple computer that I bought when I was talking to Lilla one day and basically, she blew it up because she couldn’t talk through it. I also had an HP and as soon as I started using the HP, Alex came through on the computer.

They love the electricity, the electronics.

She didn’t have any trouble communicating. We got heaps of messages on the computer. It’s pretty crazy. The reason I wanted Lilla to tell you her story was that as you start to use your energy and your energy starts to move, your consciousness starts to move and they move as one. Something good happens then. People smile because as soon as your energy and your consciousness start to move, you get messages that you’ve turned off and you start to smile. You know that they’re innately your messages.

You start to wake up again because of all these things that you’ve turned off, and you start to experience them again. When we go through trauma, especially for people who’ve gone through loss, we have countertransference. You often think that all the grief of others is yours. When you go to a funeral, everybody’s spirit wakes up when you’ve lost a child because they can all identify with it or somebody that they’ve known.

GAR 86 | Heart And Soul Productions

Heart And Soul Productions: Everybody’s spirit wakes up when you’ve lost a child because they can all identify it

When you’ve lost somebody, it wakes up your spirit and your spirit energy starts to move. They almost are saying, “I would like my spirit to tell me what the hell’s going on in me,” because they’re disconnected. It’s because your spirit is the one that tells you what the hell’s going on. That’s your intuition and instinct. Often, through interference, what happens is the people who are at the funeral dumps all their crap on you.

You are thinking all this stuff that you should be in misery and so on, but it’s not yours. It’s all the crap that you’ve soaked up while you’re at the funeral. It means that it makes it very hard for you to shift in the first place because you’ve got all this grief for everybody else and you think it’s yours which is sad because you can’t even deal with your own grief. You got to get rid of everybody else’s crap before you can even deal with yours or you think it’s yours, but it’s somebody else’s.

You are walking around with their stuff.

You’re walking around with it, you’re hanging onto it, and you don’t know how to deal with it, you’re stuck. That’s why I’ve worked with Helping Parents Heal. It’s a lot of stuff. The other thing is, and it’s one of the biggest things. We all invest in things. I’ll give you a different perspective. Women who’ve had postnatal depression, you call it something else.

Is it postpartum depression?

Yes. That’s what you call it. As you have a child, you put so much love. It’s all about investing and everything is about investing because we invest in everything like your job, your relationships, or no matter what it is. All your friends, you invest in everybody because you put so much energy and love into those people. Also, time. It means that when you invest in somebody, there’s an exchange.

What happens is when you lose somebody or you say you put all this love into a child, often a part of the mother’s energy and consciousness will go into that child. It’s why people get postnatal depression. What happens is as soon as you bring it back, you see people who couldn’t even touch their child or love their husbands and they’re back to normal.

It’s how our spirit goes and it gets shifted all around and everyone doesn’t realize how damn important our spirit is. It’s a tangible thing. You try and tell a psychologist why you have this or you have that, and yet you can fix them up just like that half the time because there’s all this spirit transference and you get the spirit back. It’s the same as when you lose somebody. I’ve got to bring that part of you back from your loved one because it’s hanging on. As you bring it back, you give yourself permission to heal.

Tell me about your book Conversations Through My Soul of Presence.

GAR 86 | Heart And Soul Productions

Conversations Through My Soul of Presence

I did write it a long time ago and it is a self-help book. A lot of clients who I’ve helped have read it and they’ve got different perspectives, but it’s also to help people because as you read that, it does help. However, it’s not specifically about helping people with grief. It does help you to find different aspects but it’s a very slow read because you can only read so much, and that’s it. I tell people never to read it on the bus or on the train because you might blank out while you’re reading it because as you put your energy into something, the energy’s in the book. It was a self-help book and I wrote that so many years ago. Now, I’m writing another one. I just got to get around to finishing it.

When you get around to finishing it, come back, and let’s talk about it, David. I’m sure everyone would be very interested in it. I want to talk to you both about the fact that you’re the Founders of Heart and Soul Productions, which develops retreats and seminars to support those who are ready to heal for people who are ready to heal from grieving trauma, stress, anxiety, depression, emotion, emotional and physical abuse, and more. What are workshop topics and what benefits can be obtained through the workshop exercises the two of you have created?

One of the largest ones, and you didn’t say it. It was highly sensitive to people. People don’t often realize they’re highly sensitive and they’re walking around getting pinged from everybody else and they don’t realize when they go to certain places that are around certain people, they feel like crap. It’s like, “How did this happen?” As we learn, everybody in a way is quite highly sensitive. Instead of not owning up to it and owning up that you are quite highly sensitive.

Society looks down on people who are supposedly very sensitive.

What you’ve got to think of is if you are highly sensitive, you’ve got all these gifts and you don’t how to use them so let me show you how to use them because you’ve got all this good stuff. Instead of it being something like a burden, you turn it into some great stuff and you have fun with it because it turns on. All the entrepreneurs, what do they do? They use their intuition and instinct. That’s why they’re successful.

They don’t listen to everybody else’s crap. They listen to their own stuff. They beat their own drum and that’s the whole thing. Everybody has to beat their own drum to find what they’re good at. It doesn’t matter whether you’re good at knitting, painting, or whatever it is. You find the joy of life and that’s the whole thing. That’s what life’s about.

However, once you start to do this work, we use subtle energy and we use neutral energy. It means that we listen to the stuff that matters because physical energy doesn’t tell you what’s going on. It’s your spirit energy that turns you back on and I teach people how to use their soul, which sounds a bit weird and everybody thinks, “My soul is a sacred thing,” but it’s your soul. You can do whatever you like with it.

Your soul is your soul. You can do whatever you like with it. Share on X

As you turn it back on, your heart gets the messages because where does your heart get the messages from? It’s from your soul but everyone thinks, “It’s my heart.” It’s not. Your soul is. It’s the one that tells you what’s going on. If you don’t use it, you lose it. Once you start to use it, you turn it back on. That’s why when I met Lilla, she looked like death warmed up. You look like crap. I should have taken the before-after check, but I didn’t know I was going to be working with her for years. People often look to me and they don’t have to have lost a child. They don’t have to have lost a child or that.

In your workshops, you help people to get back in touch with their souls and to be able to hear their self.

Yes. You get in touch with yourself. You use what you have and you find all the innate parts. I work with a strange mix of people, everyone from CEOs down to whoever. Everybody finds what makes them happy. It also means that you find what is more like your self-truth. You find where others have been telling you, “You should be doing that and you should be doing this.” All of a sudden, you think, “I wasn’t even listening to myself.” You then start to see what’s going on around you. You have this big wake-up call, and you are like, “I never saw that.” It’s a big shock.

It’s hard when the voice inside of you is stronger than the voice outside of you.

As I said before, because part of you is sitting outside, it can be easily affected. If you imagine the senses and feelings of all of you sitting around here, as soon as you walk into a crowd, you’re not going to feel too great.

I am fascinated by the fact that the two of you have so graciously offered to create a special healing workshop for our audience. Tell us what that would be like because now our readers are paying attention.

It would at least be four or more sessions.

We would have a series of four sessions.

At least four or it may even be a couple more because I like to work with people for a little while and not just one.

If 50 people show up for a healing event, what does that look like? Also, they’re coming for a succession of sessions.

As you come through and you work with us, we teach you how to use all your energy, the consciousness in your body, and your spirit. Having said that, we turn you back on, and we teach you how to use and find all the strengths that you have that you may not have even found.

The workshop that we would do, we have done before a couple of times, and it’s called Healing from Loss. It’s a combination of education and experience. David shares with people what happens to your energy and your consciousness when you experience loss. The side effect of that is that when you experience this kind of trauma and your love energy is someplace else, you feel like you’re missing something. You are because it’s left you. That leaves a gap in you where you suck up other people’s stuff. It’s compounded worse. He educates what happens in a loss. Loss is everything. Loss isn’t just a child.

It can be anything.

Also, there’s no scale of loss. That’s something that I talk to people a lot about because they think, “This loss is worse than that loss.” No, everybody’s loss is personal. I can’t measure your loss and you can’t measure my loss. It’s not a good place to be either. What you can measure is your healing. Again, you can only measure it to your benchmark. Only you know how you felt and how you’re going to feel tomorrow and next year if you keep working on healing.

Only you know what makes you happy. Nobody else does. A lot of highly sensitive people like David said pick up so many messages outside. People tell them to do this and that. They then do this and that, and they’re not happy. That’s because it’s not your information. Naturally, you’re not happy but once you get rid of all this stuff you’re carrying around, that’s what happens in the first session. David helps people release everybody else’s energy.

It’s an exercise you do with everyone there at the event.


Do they get homework where you say, “On the following week, another session is coming?”

It’s different all the time. Everything’s different.

You’re working hard, David. You’re reading a lot of different people’s energies and all.

It’s quite easy after a while. I’ve been doing it for so damn long because sometimes we have hundreds or 1,000 people in a room.

Everybody’s energy can enhance the overall healing because some people are stuck in one place and other people are stuck in another place. Once they start doing the energy exercises, they’ll swap a lot because everybody energetically or spiritually helped each other. It’s because they’re all there with the same purpose, which is to heal and the spirit wants to heal. It can be and it has been very powerful and profound for a lot of people.

We set up the times based on time zones. We had an event where we had people in Europe and Germany and they connected. That was then connected to the Eastern United States and then the Western United States goes all the way over to Australia, New Zealand, and Asia. We set them up so that people can show up. On regular occasions, much like you get emails, I would get emails the following day from people who it was the first time they have slept. It’s the first time that they woke up and they weren’t debilitated with anxiety.

They were able to get up and go for a walk and experience the world in some small way. I equate it to most people because I don’t come from the energy world. I have to take the data and I have to move it into an area that I can understand it. I relate it to working out. When you start working out, you get very tired and your muscles get sore, but you continue to work out and you get stronger. It becomes easier and you become healthier.

It’s the same. Doing energy work is extremely tiring. I tell this to everybody. When you work with David, you are so tired afterward. Do not plan on doing anything because your body is in self-healing mode and you’re very tired. You wake up the next morning extremely refreshed, but the series themselves and then it’s a progression.

First, you have to get rid of everything you picked up from everybody else. Then you have to seal all the holes from all the trauma that your energy field experienced. You can then start to build your energy and you open up the energy as David was saying all the way from the bottom to the top. You go through a bunch of grounding exercises and every day you become stronger because you strengthen your energy field. You protect yourself from events that could harm your shield. You get your messages and they’re very clear. The intuition, what you should be doing every day comes very clearly.

The people who don’t ever hear anything and feel they’re not attuned to spirit, suddenly, after a workshop or during a workshop, should be able to start hearing better messages that are meant for them.

Also, it’s not always hearing. It could be healing or inner knowing. I think a lot of people say, “I’m not hearing any messages.” “Okay, but are you waking up knowing? Is your heart taking you someplace? Are you feeling like you should be doing this thing or the other thing?” That’s it. It’s not always such a direct and that’s why one of the classes David did early on was mastering subtle energy. It is a subtle energy. It’s subtle.

To your point, you have to be quiet inside to hear it or you have to be in tune with whatever’s going on around you to start to recognize the signs of what you should be doing. What is somebody else’s information? Ask yourself when somebody says something, “Is that what I want to do, or is that what they want me to do?” It’s retraining yourself to start going inside for the information because for so many years, a lot of us are raised going outside for information and that’s normal, but it’s more beneficial to go inside. It isn’t natural.

I wanted to point out one other thing that Dave said. We had a woman who was a dean of a naturopathic school who came to one of David’s events. She had a bad brain fog after a car accident for years. After working with David for a couple of months, she gifted him with a curriculum for his energy exercises. On his website, we have her information and it’s very good for healthcare workers and teachers who are highly sensitive.

She calls it the counter-transference thing that Dave was referring to but she has provided David’s work in a very scientific methodology, as an educator would read. We’ve had people come to his workshops, submit the information for continuing education credits, and have received them in the healthcare industry.

Is it continuing education credits from your workshops?

As I said, Dr. Beverly created this curriculum. Because she was a dean of a naturopathic school, she knew how to write a curriculum. She wrote it in a way that it could be transferred into continuing education credits and because she had done his work, she knew how to describe it scientifically. I just share that as a resource. Some people need raw data.

That data would’ve helped me when I was trying to figure out what was going on because I’m a researcher. I gather information to assess situations. I wanted to share that with you because it’s on David’s website and as I said, it gives you some more of a scientific perspective on energy, the biofield, and how highly sensitive people pick up other people’s stuff.

The other thing is, Irene, we can teach everybody even right now how to do active grounding. We can show everybody how to do that.

I am going to, in the end, ask people to send me an email and let me know their interests and how they feel. I think this would be wonderful. You’re telling me all the reasons a person should want to heal. That people don’t understand, that they’re filled with blockages and that they will get such release that they’re carrying around other people’s stuff. Is there anything special about the importance of healing that each of you would like to say to our readers instead of just going through life in your swamp?

Something you said, which I think was a gold nugget is what your son said to you. Again, it’s the reversal thing. When you start to heal, those around you start to heal. Also, because we share energy with the people we love when we start to heal, they start to pick up on that healing and they heal too. To your point, what your son said about seeing you heal, brings joy and healing to them. It’s not only an individual experience. It’s important to start healing when you’re ready to, but the side benefit of healing yourself is that those around you who can’t heal or are stuck start to follow you.

GAR 86 | Heart And Soul Productions

Heart And Soul Productions: Because we share energy with the people we love, when we start to heal, they start to pick up on that healing and they heal too.

They start to heal with you and you can help move them out of where they are. Also, those around you who love you and are connected to you, feel it as well. It’s a collaboration. Your work in addition to helping you be whole again and experience life the way you are supposed to because you’re here for lessons and you’re here to have fun and enjoy life.

That doesn’t mean that you’re not going to have issues. It means that they’re going to come along and you deal with them and you spit them out. You then get stronger from that but everyone around you, the collective group, the consciousness, everybody gets lifted and everyone’s life becomes calmer, less anxious, and more grateful. Why wouldn’t you want to do that?

Think about the drama. How many people walk around with so much drama?

The amount of people who have that much drama can’t even listen to their own message. It’s amazing how it’s one of the things that stood out and Lilla mentioned it. I do a lot of couples. All of a sudden, they start to hear each other differently because they can hear what the other one’s saying and it starts a whole new relationship.

However, it also means as Lilla said, I have all these mothers who have done the workshops or I’ve worked with them one-on-one. They say, “After I worked with you, the next day, I can’t get rid of the kids.” I said, “Isn’t that great?” They said, “Yes, but I can’t get anything done.” I said, “Yes, but you’re healing them. Isn’t that the best conversation you’ve ever had with them in ages?” “Yes.” I said, “What’s the problem?”

They’re missing the whole point.

You’re getting communication. You are passing on all these great messages to the kids and because they can feel you’ve changed, they’re scanning you and they say, “We want what you’ve got.” That’s why they won’t leave you alone.

I have that personal story in my own life with all the healing that I did. I was able to help my mother to heal and my mother therefore worked with both of my brothers and my family had a tremendous healing that changed our whole story. It’s no longer a drama. I want everyone to reach out to you. Tell everyone how to get ahold of you. If you have any special offers for any of our readers, go for it.

The first thing, as I said, if there are enough readers who want a workshop, we’ll do a workshop at a very discounted rate and we’ll do four sessions, but it needs to be a large enough interest. It will be via Zoom. You have to be comfortable being on Zoom in a group with people. That’s one. Some people are and some people aren’t. The other thing is David does have one-on-one sessions where they are via Zoom as well. He needs to be able to see your energy.

He does a one-hour private. That’s usually $200. If they put in the code HEAL50, they’ll get $50 off that. He does a series of four privates for $600. If they put in HEAL100, they’ll get $100 off of that package. You sign up right online on his website. He’s got automatic booking software that confirms it and then tells you how to prepare for it. It reminds you of the day before and it reminds you a couple of hours before the event so that you constantly have reminders.

Any of those ways work. Also, oftentimes people have questions, they can email me. It’s and All of the support emails or anything on his website where you can ask a question, I get copied on those. Oftentimes, I’m the one who responds because David’s working and I have familiarity with his work. Also, I’m his manager and his promoter.

People can reach out. They don’t have to buy a session or participate in a workshop. I’m happy to talk to people and answer questions. The goal is to try and get them to eventually find a path to healing. Any way to do that is what we’re all about. We devote a lot of our time and energy to volunteering to help other people who can’t. I want to help people in any way I can. That’s what I’m here to do.

We are totally on the same page.

I have talked to numerous people over the phone and via Zoom or email. I want people to know that Dave and I are here. In any capacity you would like to reach out to us, it’s safe. We’re welcoming you. No question is a bad question, and any time is fine. We will respond.

It’s a no-judgment zone.

There is no such thing as a silly question because whatever you think is relevant is probably relevant to somebody else. When people do work together, I do find they help each other. You might think you’re in a state of grief or something or whatever, and you think someone else is going to pull you down or so on, but generally, I find people help each other.

I find people often when you’re in a group situation of healing that they’re a little shy to begin with, but then once one person starts opening up, every person starts to follow because they do realize that they’re not as unique as they think they are.

Once one person starts opening up, every people start to follow because they do realize that they're not as unique as they think they are. Share on X

Everybody swaps emails and they tend to talk to each other. They help each other as well. It is a community, or whatever as you come along. I also help people balance, extras here and there and whatever. It’s not like we just leave you alone.

It sounds like what each of you do is it brings you tremendous joy. Is there any other tip that you have to find joy in life?

I’d like to show people how to ground actively so they can feel their energy. Also, because everybody’s been through COVID, it means that you don’t take on all the strain, stress, and anxiety of everybody else that’s been around you, because otherwise, you are feeling everybody else as well. You’ll learn how to move your energy a little bit and it’s pretty simple. I can show everybody how to do that.

How cool would that be? I think I’d be fabulous. How about you, Lilla? Is there anything that you have to say about finding joy in life? It’s because after Alex died, you were able to do that?

I said it in another way. Finding my path and doing this work is extremely rewarding in a way that no job, career, or financial can provide. My personal joy expands to all those around me. Everything related to this, I do in honor of Alex. That brings me joy as well knowing that every time I have a positive impact on anyone’s life experience, it’s an honor for her.

To me, there’s nothing more joyful than knowing that. The joy is finding what it is that you should be doing and doing it regardless of what everybody else says. Do it with passion and love, and joy follows. It’s like the currency of living your purpose is that you get a return of joy and being grateful gives you joy. It’s a currency system that I wasn’t familiar with but is extremely powerful.

I’m totally with you on that. For all of you reading who don’t know what your purpose is or don’t know what it’s about, it sounds like this would be a tremendous workshop for you to participate in. I am so grateful to the two of you. You’re terrific and Lilla, what a blessing your work with David and his incredible healing gifts have helped you to replace so much sadness, loss, and negative energy with such apparent self-love and gratitude.

David, what a blessing for you that Alex gave Lilla that directive to bring you to the world. Now, you’re inspiring people with your workshops and for Heart & Soul Productions and you’re helping so many people to heal and reconnect with the deepest core of their beings. You’re doing incredible work and you’re accomplishing your mission.

Now, we can all look forward to the special healing workshop that Lilla and David can create for the show. Be sure to let me know if you would like to participate in this workshop by emailing me at and put Podcast Workshop in the subject line. If you’d like to make a comment about this interview or ask any questions, feel free to do so. Be sure to follow and like us because we know you do on social @IreneSWeinberg on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Thanks again for joining us and as I like to say, to be continued, many blessings, and bye for now.


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